Job Discussion Forums

[Wigwam]

An British colleague of mine claims that the the TOEFL is inferior to the IELTS. I don't know too much about the IELTS except that it is a British qualification and that it is no better than the TOEFL when testing students for University. What do you think?

[Stephen Jones]

The IELTS tests production more than the TOEFL. Both exams do a fair job of giving the university some idea of the student's level of English. In the old days British Universities used to insist on Proficiency, but mercantalism has won out over academic standards.

[veiledsentiments]

Most of us who have worked with both can spend all day telling you what is wrong with both of them. There are UKians who will support IELTS to the death and USAians who will do the same for TOEFL.

IMHO, they both sort of give a university a general idea of a guess of what an applicant's English level might be... on a good day...

But as tests go, neither is all that impressive...

VS

[Gnocchiman]

Tomato / Tomato , Potato / Potato .... mmmmmmm...potato......

[Sole Survivor]

The IELTS does test speaking skills. The TOEFL doesn't. That's a plus.

[Iamherebecause]

I've taught both TOEFL preparation courses and IELTS preparation courses. In the former, if you want your students to do well you end up focusing on test taking strategies rather than language skills. How to do multiple guess tests in other words. In the latter, the focus is more on study skills, so even if the course is very exam oriented the students will be learning something they can apply to their academic study afterwards. I don't know of any academic study programme where skill in interpreting snippets of conversation without ever asking for clarification is essential (if you are familiar with TOEFL listening you will know what I mean) but being able to synthesis from sources, now that's an essential skill.
I have also taught in institutions which require TOEFL and others which require IELTS. It's possible to have a good TOEFL score and very poor academic writing skills and poor oral skills. With IELTS, if you look at the scores for the 4 skill areas separately you can have a good idea of what the student should be able to do and what they will need help with.
Conclusion? IELTS is a better predictor of what students should be able to do, especially if you look at the detailed score not the average.

[omanized]

I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned the new TOEFL iBT which has been phased in all over the world and is finally here in the ME. It is entirely different than the dusty old test and includes speaking, reading, writing and listening. There are independent tasks for each skill as well as some integrated ones - students may listen to a speech, take notes, then read a passage and take notes and then a question will come to compare the information and they have to speak or write an answer.

It is downloaded to a server and then networked throughout the lab - data from the test is stored in the server and then posted back to ETS - real human beings will score the speaking and writing samples!

It is more difficult I'm sure for students, especially here in the Gulf as it is highly skill based and can't be crammed for.

Check it out for yourself, perhaps your institution would want to become a testing center - it is now open for any school or institute to apply - all that is required is the proper technical specs, staff to administer the exam and I suppose, the scruples to adhere to all ETS security procedures regarding the integrity of the exam. Well, two out of three ain't bad........

toefl.org

I'm sounding a bit like a zealot but a couple of years ago the Min. of Higher Ed. and also Manpower in Oman has mandated the TOEFL as an acceptance standard here in Oman so I am waiting for the fallout as the old paper test will no longer be available. A bit like watching a slow motion train wreck...

omanized

[Wigwam]

Having read the recent accounts and done some research of my own into the differences between TOEFL and IELTS I must admit that the TOEFL appears a totally inadaquate system of testing compared to the IELTS. Even though TOEFL has now been improved recently, it still does not seem to measure up to the IELTS in terms of writing or speaking and it also assumes that students are proficient users of computers in order to take the test. I just cannot understand how any institution in the UAE can justify the use of the TOEFl. What strikes me further is that universities will allow students to enter freshman with as little as 500 on TOEFL even though most US universities would not accept anything below 540. As far as I can see, the TOEFL is used because it is easy to administer and it gives students a 25% chance of guessing the answer correctly. The IELTS it appears depends on productive skills. Any comments or am I way off?

[veiledsentiments]

The writing sections are equal as far as I can see. (have taught TOEFL writing and was an IELTS examiner) The difference is that those using the exam can choose to not use the writing section - which is ridiculous in the ME where writing is their weakest skill and the one that should be used for placement. As far as I can see the only advantage that IELTS has is its speaking component, and that is the least of the problems for most students anyway.

Not to mention that many students start at most UAE unis at significantly less than 500 or the Foundations programs. There is constant pressure to allow them to start classes before their English is ready. It is just a fact of life that one must deal with if one teaches academic level classes.

VS

[omanized]

I agree that the computer literacy of the new iBT can be unfair to many test takers but I would defend the assessment of the new TOEFL exam as being rather good. The listening sections are more suitable for an academic environment - I find the IELTS listening is more on a social level, phone numbers, messages then conversations. The reading is on par as is the speaking - very similar. The writing is also good - similar to task 2 on IELTS. I find that the task 1 writing ( graphs etc ) is just as easily crammed for .

I suppose that ETS assumes that the entire world is comfortable with typing in English - surprising given that at least half of my colleagues and friends type as I do with the index/middle finger flurry ! I will forever regret bailing out on the optional typing class in grade 10....

omzd

[veiledsentiments]

Back in prehistoric times when I was in HS in the US, everyone had to take 'typing' since keyboarding - as it is now called - was considered important whether you went to university or not. I always pitied those who sat there hunting and pecking.

But, I would say that keyboarding skills are as crucial now as English skills if they intend to study abroad. They tend to already be at a disadvantage because of slow reading speed, and to have extremely slow computer production will just add to their burden. I couldn't imagine producing a 5 page essay with two fingers - or a thesis as many are going to grad school.

VS

[Spin duck]

Don't know about TOEFL, but have been an IELTS teacher and examiner and been on the post-IELTS side in higher education.

Band 7.0 or above may give an indication of good potential linguistic and academic literacies. Even then, this may be potential only. Below 7.0 may not actually say much in terms of academo-linguistic ability in my experience. A previous degree might indicate something in terms of academic ability, but again not necessarily, it seems.

Probably the majority of international students are accepted into universities in the UK, Australia etc. on IELTS band scores are in the 5.0-6.5 area. Can't help feeling that IELTS and TOEFL are getting away with it in collaring the market. There's no competition and under such circumstances complacency (and mediocrity) usually sets in.

"Any large company composed of wholly admirable persons has the morality and intelligence of an unwieldy, stupid and violent animal. The bigger the organization, the more unavoidable is immorality and blind stupidity. Society, by automatically stressing all the collective qualities in its individual representatives, puts a premium on mediocrity, on everything that settles down to vegetate in an easy, irresponsible way. Individuality will inevitably be driven to the wall. This process begins in school, continues at the university, and rules all departments in which State has a hand. In a small social body, the individuality of its members is better safe-guarded; and the greater is their relative freedom and possibility of conscious responsibility. Without freedom there can be no morality."

(Jung, Collected Works, 7:240)