Job Discussion Forums

[gaijinalways]

I have had several things that have thrown things off this semester; non-ordered books, courses with less classes than originally stated, and a double class with the same students (I was under the impression I would have two separate groups). But a bigger problem that I have dealt with is disruptive students. Last semester was bad, as this department tends to have bigger classes of Business students who include quite a few low level as well as non-motivated students whose sole purpose seems to try to be to disrupt the class rather than learn much. My question is, what to do with these students?

One coworker is luckier in that her classroom is quite large and she can afford to seprate the 'bad' students into a group that is placed toward the back of the classroom. They disrupt class less often this way and she does check on them regularly, and just reminds them to copy things that are put on the board as generally most if not all of that will be on the quizzes she gives. Otherwise she doesn't worry too much about them and focuses on the students who want more of what she has to offer (in other words, let sleeping dogs, literally students, just lie).

I unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your outlook) don't have the space to partition these students off (as well as having more of them, so called low achievers). So, I am just wondering, what should I do to try to deal with them as I will probably have the ones I don't fail again next semester (it's a two semester class, with grades for each term)? Any ideas that you have tried or would like to try?

[mondrian]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on the China Forums.
It really all depends on what is permissible by your Dean (or whoever is in charge of the curriculum). If you get a smile and told that you are the expert, so you will be able to deal with it, then YOU decide what you are going to do. You can kick out the disruptive students. If they complain, ask them to bring their parents and see the Dean with you and an interpreter. If you must have them in class, then because you do have seats for everyone already, you can segregate them by putting them on one side and just breath on them heavily and constantly until they do behave, or else you can then throw them out. As for the sleepers, as long as they are quite (ie don't snore), just put them at the back of the class all together. But tell all your students that the consequences of such behaviour is failure and that you WILL be their teacher next term and that you will then fail them again.
It does work - as I've had many such classes in the past.
It is a symptom of their translation from the rigid regime of their High School to the freedom of University life

[movinaround]

From what I can tell from the China forums, people just sleep with the students and I guess after all these problems disappear

This may sound stupid, but candy, especially those Pocky sticks in China (I know they are Japanese though). Not often either, that is very important, they then become expectant of candy from you all the time and will do nothing until you give it to them. But a treat once in a while makes a big difference It did in my Chinese university class.

[ls650]

[Gordon]

Don't get them to sit together at the back, that's what they want. Misbehaviour should not be rewarded.

Sometimes I move or separate students if they are constantly talking. I too stop the class then. If it still continues, I ask them to leave. Once they refused to leave so I picked up their books and put it outside of the classroom. They got the not-so-subtle hint and finally left.

Don't let students walk all over you, you have to be tough and fair, at least I try to be.

[Glenski]

I'm with Gordon and Is650. You are the boss in the classroom. Prove it.

1. Stop the class when students talk out of turn. Embarrass them. Don't raise your voice. Maintain your cool. Embarrass them. Tell them whatever it takes.
"Who's getting paid to talk here, me or you?"
"I'm sorry, did you come here from a shogakko?"
"Please come to the front and talk so everyone can hear."

2. Set rules from day one. Any clowning around results in points taken off their total score. A seating chart helps you keep track. Explain what percent of their scores is based on performance and attitude. Stop class and tell these disruptive students that they have just lost the points for the day. NO exceptions.

3. Put peer pressure on them. If they work in a group and one person goofs off, the whole group loses points. No exceptions.

4. Do as Gordon mentioned. If things get too bad, stop the whole class, and tell them to leave. Wait until they do. Make sure the others realize they are paying for this.

One caveat to sleepers: find out why they are sleeping. My students often get up at ungodly early hours and/or have to travel quite a distance to get to school, so they may be physically exhausted. Have a heart, but a firm one. Encourage them as much as possible before you whip them.

[Malsol]

gaijinalways

[tedkarma]

I agree with the previous posters that you must not cede your authority in the classroom to disruptive/uncooperative students.

Your range of options varies greatly - and depends to on the number of students involved. Lots of good suggestions above.

If the numbers are small (but it only takes a few to set things off coures) - I usually tell the class that the problem student is my friend and that I am lonely and I want them to come and sit right in front of the class - right next to me. The next step, of course, is right out the door. The trip is shorter though - if they are already up front near me and the door.

If I knew I had some problem students in a class, I would catch one of them at the door as they come in at the beginning of class - and place them right in front of me - in the front row. Often students only need an example made and will respond appropriately. Don't forget, it is your right as the teacher to assign seats if you wish. Not in that seat? Absent! Might as well head out the door anyway . . .

Do it all with a smile - and the number one rule on discipline: Always take action BEFORE you get p*ssed. It keeps you and the students on track.

Anytime and everytime - intervene early and firmly.

[gaijinalways]

Thanx guys, I will try some of these next term and make some comments as well when I have time at lunch today.

[gaijinalways]

Just a few things to ponder;

Depending on the university, kicking students out regularly doesn't always help your reputation at the school. I have seen some teachers labeled as difficult or not cooperative for refusing to let students into class, regardless of how uncooperative some of the students are. Seems they paid their money, they get to be a part of the teacher's life.

Also, dealing a lot with kyoumuka is not every teacher's dream, hence startegies for ejecting students sometimes get the front office more involved in your classes than you'd appreciate. In addition, the semi-annual survey results that students fill out can negatively affect your career chances. Unhappy students complain, and many universiites adopt the shoganai attititude as well as 'the other teachers don't have this problem' stance.

That being said, just threatening and lowering their grades works for most stutents, but some students seem to be on a very slow learning curve. In other words, this type of disruptive behavior was fossilized long before they came into my class.

What kind of behaviours? Coming to class continually late, failing to do claswork or doing it at a very slow pace simply, until they are badgered and reminded to start it doing it, never mind doing it. In addition, they sometimes attempt to communicate with people somewhat across the room. So basically; noisy, do work, if at all, at a much slower pace than they are capable of, and of course doing other work for other classes, checking keitai e-mail, etc.. es. I have moved them in the front, yet they often persist, so booting them probably will be the next step. I have also arranged different groups, though this can be time intensive as well (the arranging I mean, especially if it for every activity).

I think I will use a seating chart for the next semester for this class; I usually prefer to be more laissez faire when it comes to seating, but keeping track of names and tally scores for 'persistent' students is a good idea (also makes taking attendance easier), though I already make notations for sleepers and talkers already.

As to the number of students causing trouble, somewhere between 8-15 out of about 44. Some students if they are kept busy have good days, some just seem to do the minimum, even though they are not the weakest students in the class. The ripple effect is what is annoying, and I feel like I'm using up too much energy dealing with these people and their antics. Also, completing tasks suffers as compared to another class (in the same book, about the same level of ability) I can't finish nearly the same amount of material simply because of time wasted doing 'police' work.

Thanks again for the suggestions .

[Gorm]

I've just been offered positions at 2 universities and one college. I was also offered a position at a middle school in Hangzhou.

My destination choices include:

Nanjing
Wenzhou
Xianning
Hangzhou

Should I be wary of universities? How do they differ from other ed institutions in China? The contracts seem legit/good and I've read some positive feedback about 2 of them on a few sites (no negative feedback) and have been given E-mails of teachers, but haven't heard back from any of them (it's only been 8hrs since I've emailed them though).

Also, has anyone taught at Xianning College? I can't find anything on it...in the meantime I'll wait and see what the other teachers have to say about it.

What about the locations? I assume Nanjing is the best place for a 20s guy, but I really don't know much about the other cities besides what I could gleam from Internet sources (not much).

[Glenski]

[gaijinalways]

Sure Glenski, but you might be surprised how much it takes to embarass some students. I could never imagine doing some of the things these students do . As I hinted at earlier, at the universities I work at, it's very unusual to boot students out. I would almost say it might be more trouble than it's worth. By the way, a 10 minute cut off seems to be overly strict, more usual as a cutoff is 30 minutes, though I tend to take points off rather than simply mark them absent for tardiness.

I notice also no one has commented on the survey angle . Believe me, I have several students who are border line for failing (though this university's fail line is set at 50!), but I am not inclined to spend a lot of time jousting with the admin. If I have people who are total wastes of class time, it's a no brainer. But it is not always that cut and dried.

Yes the work issue will come up, but there is a limit on how many students you can fail (just as there are university imposed ones for giving double As). It's a fine balance while keeping some standards. This a outgrowth of some issues mentioned at an earlier union meeting; basically getting schools to focus on education and not on running education factories .

Another factor is what your teaching style is. I, like most etachers, prefer to have motivated students, yet ironically I am discovering that better universities (prestige-wise and supposed level-wise) have some very spoiled students who feel that just showing up is enough. I wish it weren't so!

[ls650]

[Glenski]

You work at more than one university? That means you are a part-timer and are unlikely to have a survey done on you. PTers at my uni don't.

Use whatever time limit you like, but it seems to me that for a 90-minute class, if you allow them to miss 1/3 of it (30 minutes), you are being overly lax.