Job Discussion Forums

[shikushiku-boy]

'THE LAST MAN STANDING FALLACY': Quite popular with some of the greybeards
who post. Usually goes something like this, "I've been in Japan for X number of years,
you've only been in Japan for X number of months, I'll still be here when you've gone, so
I'm right and you're wrong." Very butch!

'ARGUMENTUM AD IGNORANTIUM' (argument from ignorance): Another popluar one
with the greybeards. Look for posts that begin, "I've never heard of..." or "I find it hard
to believe that...". Once upon a time, people found it hard to believe the world was round;
didn't mean it wasn't correct, though.

'ARGUMENTUM AD CRUMENAM' (agrument from the purse). A very popular one with
our more right-wing, free-market orientated colleagues: "I make more money than you so
I must be right." A top Ginza hostess makes more money than any teacher on
this forum; perhaps, we should get her opinion on EFL pedagogical techniques.

'ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM' (attack the person), sometimes called the 'Poising the
well' trick: Unfavourable information about person A (true or false) is presented, therefore,
anything person A says must be wrong. "The OP is a lazy, pampered, mummy's-boy, who
has come to Japan just to get drunk and get laid, and therefore, his opinion about un-paid
overtime is rubbish. "

'ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM ABUSIVE: More popular than you'd think on a forum used
by so many tertiary educated people. Basically just heap as much vitriol as you can on anybody
who disagrees with you. Much favoured in primary school playgrounds: "X has stinky paaaaants!
X has stinky paaaaants!"

'ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM CIRCUMSTANTIAL': Person A says B, but person A is biased by
C, so B can't be correct.

'THE STRAW MAN': An old favourite. Create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position
to your opponent. "The OP thinks that the world owes him a living, and that he's doing his boss a favour by
turning up for work...etc., etc. An argument much favoured by fathers.

'ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM (agrument from the people): The 'everybody says so' argument. An argument
much favoured by teenage daughters: "But everybody says a navel ring is cool!"

'IPSEDIXITISM' (the 'you'll just have trust me on this one' argument) Big, general statements are made
without any supporting evidence. The reader just has to trust that the writer knows what he/she is talking
about. Another one much favoured by fathers, and used on gullible children: 'If you keep doing that you'll
go blind..."

Just a few to look out for. Knowledge is power.

[kdynamic]

Um, did you have a point?

[Like a Rolling Stone]

[dove]

I don't respond much to posts, but I do read the Japan forum every day just to see who is dissing who (or is that who is dissing whom....just might be dissed myself for bad grammar). I love to see people try to one-up each other. It's fun. It's Sammy Jo and Alexis cat-fighting in a fountain. It's that guy in Japanese class who knows more kanji than you do. It's every foreigner who snubs you when you try to make eye contact....I can only wonder what goes on in private messaging. Must be Joan Crawford vs Bette Davis.

Ya'll know who you are. Thanks!

[Ai]

very fancy latin! good on you smarty-pants!

[shikushiku-boy]

Yes, dad, I think you got all of 'em. I promise to change my stinky pants...and I will stop doing that thing you warned me about

[Like a Rolling Stone]

Son, its ok. at my age I know, so keep on posting boy. My worst phallusy is argument ad bigus batus when someone says I am right and if you don"t agree I will hit your over the head with a big bat. こわいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいいい

[opalgrav]

Hey shikushiku-boy, just wanna say THANK YOU! -in spite of the inevitable bitter remark there. this post's a keeper on my hd.

The problem with forums is that even though people converge to one shared interest, there are still gonna be arguments. Unfortunately, during these arguments there are way too many people who resort to the same old cliches, as if they can't even think up arguments for themselves that are in any way sound. Yes, there is a pattern these arguments inevitably follow, and you were right to point out some of them.

So it isn't that hard to grasp. To that one who inquired so concisely, the point would be that all forums are sad, sad breeding grounds for intellectually regressive debate.

Back to the OP: You pointing these out probably won't make a dent in the level of crap that floats around, but at least there's SOMEONE who's noticing these things


From my own personal experiences, these are the one's I've seen that you've already listed

[cornishmuppet]

I have to agree the OP has got it pretty spot on.

[Filinadian]

I've been dissed a lot on this board. I've learned to ignore the haters or the smarty-pants. I use the board to help people or to get help from people. If you let the haters get to you, then you will retaliate, and the argument doesn't get anywhere and you might look like a fool trying to argue about something small and unimportant.

Instead, use your energy to post useful advice or great questions that are specific. I find that people that post general or vague questions get dissed a lot, especially for new people that join the board. I don't feel that way, I always tell my students "There are no stupid questions, only the ones that you don't ask".

This board is extremely helpful, and it is a shame people have to be dissed for expressing their opinions or for asking simple questions.



Filinadian

[shikushiku-boy]

I'm glad that some people find the post useful. I've been thinking about
this subject for a while...I've just been lazy about putting finger to
keyboard. It is sad to see some people (who shall remain nameless) using
the same old tired techniques to stifle opinions they disagree with.

I know this forum doesn't have to abide by formal academic standards,
but, I think, we'd all agree we could do with a little less name calling and clich�d responses.

Opalgrav, the one you mention is very common. I'll have to do some study and see if it has a name.

When international relations are discussed, people often defend country X by using the 'two wrongs make a right' argument:

Country X does Y which is wrong, but country Z does A which is wrong, so, by inference, it's OK for country X to do Y.

Sounds silly, but people do it all the time.

[womblingfree]

[shikushiku-boy]

The "That's the way things have always been, so I'm not going to worry about it." argument is, probably,
best described as ARGUMENTUM AD ANTIQUITATEM (argument from common practice), with some
resignation and apathy thrown in.



Back to the list:

ARGUMENTUM AD CONSEQUENTIAM (argument to the consequences)

If A is right, then B will happen (and B is bad), so A must be wrong.

ARGUMENTUM AD BACULUM (argument to the cudgel)
ARGUMENTUM AD TERROREM (argument from fear)

Both the old "Take my advice, or your boss will fire your butt in 5 minutes flat." argument.
In modern marketing known as FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt). Basically, put the
fear of God into people who don't know any better.

[harlemknight]

ARGUMENTUM AD NAUSEAM

[red dog]