Job Discussion Forums

[sidjameson]

Although it is somewhat difficult to measure can people say what they consider to be a comparable profession or job in terms of skill level required. For example I guess most people could rank these jobs in order of difficulty; doctor, plumber, security guard, lawyer, baker and sales assistant. So give it a bit of thought and say what you think a job that is comparable to TEFL would be.

I propse a salesman. Some people do both without knowing anything about what they are doing, but a good computer salesman for example can really help the client achieve their aspirations.

[ls650]

[Gordon]

I thik it would depend on where you work and in what capacity. Entry level jobs are different from others that require more skill and/or education.

Many teachers do take their work home with them.

[Will.]

I do not know about your particalar schools but i have seen some teachers in my time that were honestly not even up to Macdo standards.

[Russell Hadd]

[SueH]

[Gregor]

Russell Hadd wrote:

[Spinoza]

[TheLongWayHome]

I like englishteacherx's comparison of English Teaching, Prostitution and Hairdressing...

http://www.skateforfun.com/englishteacherx/backup/page166.html

[Super Frank]

Teaching is the hardest job I've done. In my 18 years or so of working I have more mornings where I have to drag myself out of bed than I ever had before. This I think is due to the unpredictability of the job. You have to have your head screwed on properly, can't just take a five minute break if you are struggling, constantly thinking on your feet trying to stay just 10 minutes ahead, nowhere to hide if things go wrong. I love English language and like children, my lessons tend to be entertaining enough, I have a good rapport with the students, but sometimes wonder whether I made the right career change. Give it a year and I will decide then.

[Gregor]

Oh, man,
Give it at LEAST a year. Spinoza's right. It's an easy job. There are aspects to it, not the least of which is adjusting to living in a foreign country. But there are others, and you mentioned some of them.
I had a very rough time of it at first, but it turned out that it was just a whole WORLD of unfamiliarity. A BIG part of it for me was realizing that it IS an easy job. I kept trying to make it into more work than it has to be, and once I stopped doing that, it became a lot easier. Of course. And then it just got easier and easier until now it's like falling off a log - hard NOT to do, really.
So give it some time. You'll probably be fine.

[tedkarma]

This depends significantly on what you are teaching - to whom - and where.

Most entry level jobs in most professions - don't require much. When you advance in the career a bit and begin teaching some skills like writing, pronunciation, IELTS, TOEFL, etc. - the demand on the teacher increases significantly.

Those who relate teaching to McDonalds - I suspect of being about that skill level - partly because they obviously have little idea about what to do and how to do it. Most who make such comments, I might also guess, have had no training - not even a four-week certificate - and thus don't have any idea what they should be doing.

Frankly, I love this occupation - it has treated me VERY well - and I have had a good life over the last 15 years. It is not exceptionally difficult - but difficult is not the measure. It has certainly CHALLENGED me to solve problems and meet the needs of students who truly need English skills to improve their occupational options - and lives. THAT, I take seriously.

[Super Mario]

[Gregor]

Tedkarma, I very much agree with you. But yeah, entry-level TEFL DOES tend to be pretty easy, once the candidates get their heads around it.
As I said, it can be very taxing, just getting used to the field. Once that's done, though, there are plenty of challenges that can be taken on, and those tend to lead to more money as well. Generally speaking.
I didn't mean to offend or be unclear. I think you are familiar enough with me to know that I take my job very seriously, and that it has been good to me, too.
The thing is, those challenges are for later. My comments were based on getting into it in the first place. I don't want newbies to get discouraged, ya know.
I know this will be considered a risible statement to some of those on this forum, but I would compare teaching ESL to...let's see, what? How about teaching school? I mean, as far as the value performed to the society in question is concerned. (Yes, many of us teach snotty rich kids, but even those of us can make a lasting mark on these minds - and plenty of American teachers in American schools teach snotty rich kids.) And required level of knowledge, it's also on par. (Again, it's a matter of equivalency - I can run intellectual rings around a newly-certified, right-out-of-uni high school teacher with my own education and quals.)

As far as our place in some sort of hierarchy, as the OP asks, I don't see the point. All we need to consider is, do you like your job? How hard is it for you to do? Do you feel as though you are making a contribution? And so on.
However, I can also see the entertainment value in this sort of exercise, and I can also understand why we might sometimes ask about it - after all, we seem to be wildly overpaid compared to other professionals in the societies where we find ourselves.
So. In the spirit of the game, I'd say that, in any given society we may find ourselves in, we're peers with paralegals, general contractors, optometrists, paramedics, accountants, that sort of thing.
We're fractionally above under-educated but skilled workers (bakers, carpenters, hair stylists, printers), who in turn are slightly above unskilled but particularly responsible workers (security guards, bank tellers, data processors), who are THEN above unskilled labor (construction workers, street repair people, hospital porters). And we are below higher-educated/experienced professionals (solicitors, doctors, chemical engineers).
They, in turn, are slightly below medical specialists, barristers, university professors, corporate administrators, and so on.
This doesn't work very well, though, when you consider people like cops, entertainers, different levels of medical practitioners (i.e. is a GP the same as an Internist? What about an RN vs and LVN?), soldiers, politicians, different levels of teachers (i.e. public vs private schools, high school vs primary), and on and on. Where you put those people depend very much on where a society puts them, and on their level of experience and rank.
And none of this is FAIR, mind you, and I'm not commenting on these people's salaries, but more their general STATIONS in society.

I can't comment on job difficulty, exactly. That's not really anything you can quantify. I find my job...I almost said "easy." And that would be correct, but not accurate, because I definitely have plenty of challenges. But a talented offset printer could do a job that I find quite beyond my capabilities, even though I did it for YEARS, and he might call it easy. So who knows?
And he could be far more intelligent than I am, but find my job quite impossible.

[jr1965]

I think that teaching a language is analogous to being a sports coach. You're teaching someone a skill and you're working with that person or group to develop that skill.

In my opinion, a language teacher isn't exactly imparting knowledge, say in the way that a chem teacher is. Learning and being good in a language isn't the sum of memorizing a lot of rules and words, just like memorizing a bunch of game-play strategies isn't the key to being a great soccer player. Sure those strategies come into play, and it's important for teachers (or coaches) to present them, but simply drilling those isn't going to make the learner a better speaker/listener/reader/writer, just like it won't make the athlete a better player.

Good teachers have an understanding of how languages work and maybe even speak a 2nd or 3rd language themselves. In the same way, a coach is hired to work with a team based on his/her knowledge of the game and experience playing it. The coach can't make the team play well, but he or she can work with the players to develop strategies and their individual strengths, and help them to become better athletes. But the coach can't do it for them. And let's face it: a lot will also come down to a player's (or student's) innate ability and what they put into each practice session and game they play.

Do a search for answers to the question "What makes a good coach?" I'll bet you find that many of the answers will be similar to what we're expected to do as language teachers. I did a search and looked at the first site that came up (http://kidshealth.org/teen/food_fitness/sports/good_coach.html). Check out some of these kids' replies.

So, in my opinion, teaching a language is not easy, just like coaching a sport and helping your team achieve some measure of success isn't. Look at all you need to be able to do!

Final note: As is the case with many coaches, when things go wrong, it's the teacher who takes the blame!