Job Discussion Forums

[halroach]

Some time ago I predicted the decline of the Web International chain. Now it appears to be coming true. I have it on good authority that they are seriously struggling to keep student enrollment going in Shanghai. They are so desperate they are flooding the subway with teenage kids handing out fliers and screaming to get people's attention. We're talking hard sell. Meanwhile, the franchises around the country are going the way the EF franchises have gone - to hell. Web were addicted to the franchises, as they were to pointless, and endless advertising advertising. It seems that the management rats are jumping ship too. A friend in Wall Street told me they are getting flooded with applications from Web employees who see the writing on the wall.

[Babala]

Web has always handed out brochures on the street, that's not a new thing. Shanghai is probably one of the most difficult markets for schools as the competition is so great. I know of one branch in Shanghai that was definately struggling. However many of the other Web branches are very successful. Web has opened about 4 new schools in the last 6 months or so and they seem to be doing fine. Could you explain just how the Web centers are going to hell? Do you have any concrete information or are you just going by hearsay?

[halroach]

They've got all these kids in the subways - dozens of them. It's really in your face and much more of it than before. It looks desperate.

We also interviewed 2 of Web managers who wanted to leave because things were getting hairy. These 2 knew each other only casually (I asked) but they said similar things. Sales are declining as the management gets stretched.

The school managers in the chain schools know what's going on in other chains. The word on the street is that Web's sales are definitely falling behind.

[frank d]

I know, I know, I know, I did not see this with my own eyes so I will probably get pummeled by the usual hard-core skeptics around here, but a number of my current students told me that Web International�Nanjing really took a beating on local TV quite recently by a group of disgruntled Web customers. In my mind, when it gets to that point, funeral services are not far behind. I�ve worked as part-time teacher in all the Nanjing training schools, except Web International, and many of my students complain about being grossly misled by the training school�s �course consultants,� but they usually remain fairly docile in their dissatisfaction; so when they get to the point where they contact the local TV station, you can bet, they�re fuming! Did anyone actually see this Nanjing TV report themselves?

[Malsol]

The demise has been predicted for the past four years but they are like the everready bunny, just keep going and going and going.

[frank d]

I understand what you are saying Malsol, and perhaps you are right, but just to clarify, Web International-Nanjing opened July, 2004.

[halroach]

The famous 'course consultants' giving it hell. Web never had any teaching or academics in its DNA. None of the founders were teachers - they were just guys who liked what they saw in Wall Street and decided to copy the idea. The course materials - software - came off the shelf. It was a seat-of-the-pants start-up that I almost admired for its brazen optimism. You can imagine what began to happen soon after, however.

What they have been good at is sales. Not quality, not teaching, not any understanding of learner needs, just sales, sales, and more sales. If anmyone thinks EF are MacTefl, they should see the inside of Web and Wall Street.

This has to end badly, surely. I know Web have their defenders, but that just goes to show the miserable state of TEFL in this country - far too many people who work here as teachers can't seem to distinguish between effective teaching and Mactefl.

[vikdk]

the great thing about Web, wall street, an EF is that the kind of employment and work environments they create can be so easily illustrated in our posts - they define McCrap. an that allows us to use them to such good effect when discussing the type of teaching monkeys we want to be in the China ESL zoo.

of course not many serious teachers would stay in these places - probally why they get so little deffence as monkey sanctuaries - but that doesn't stop some of wannabe Zoo-keepers getting involved - you know the posters who seem to have a foot on the other side of cage, or those who are supposedly so ethical and pure they always seem to play white night slashing away at the rebellious FT masses. So I'm sure this post will raise a few hackles. So please wake up and join in - "its a basic human right to work in China as an FT" crowd - heres another chance for you guys to start harping on about - WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES????

an another chance for the like of me to suggest the blasphemous alternative of staying at home if the likes of McCrap jobs are those on offer

[Babala]

Both Web and Wallstreet offer higher salaries. The working environments are very comfortable. The students actually want to learn English which is different than many schools where they are there because they have to be. I find the complaints that are coming about these centers are not coming from the FT's who work there but other teachers who seem to object to chain schools. I have been at Web for about 3 years now. The two Webs that I have direct knowledge of are doing very well.

[frank d]

Because I had worked with the education manager at another school (Canilx), within a few months after Web International-Nanjing opened, he contacted me and asked me to come and � tour our new training center and discuss the possibility of joining us.� Because he and I were friends, I agreed to do so. (This was September, 2004.)

The education manager and I had a pleasant interview during which he promised to make some special provisions for me in the standard contract. He also set-up a telephone interview with the teacher trainer in Shanghai, who later agreed my previous experience was enough to circumvent a trip to Shanghai for additional training. So far, so good.

I was quickly whisked into the HR office and handed a contract. None of the special agreements/adjustments to the contract appeared in the document. When I expressed misgivings, I was told �Yes, it is not directly in the contract, but you can trust us, it will be OK.� At that point, I said I needed time to think about it, and asked to meet some of the FTs presently working there. At first, they ran around and snagged an FT willing to give me the �party line,� which was obviously not entirely sincere. I said �Thanks, I�ll think about it,� and departed.

While waiting for the elevator, another FT approached me. He was just about to take a �smoke break,� and he agreed to speak to me out of earshot of administration. In fact, we went to another floor altogether. He told me the current FTs were particularly upset about a contract situation, and felt they had been tricked.

In the contract, a monthly housing allowance above and beyond the basic monthly salary for teaching was offered (standard in NJ at the time). But he said at Web, most teachers never receive it because of a sneaky stipulation. It seems Web-Nanjing was requiring the FTs to produce receipts/proof of rent payments to their landlords. According to him, such proof was impossible to come by as NJ landlords would refuse to provide these receipts, wanting to avoid any evidence of rental income. Without the receipt (according the contract) Web would not reimburse the rent to the FT. He said the FTs felt Web knew of this special feature of NJ landlord culture, and therefore tricked the FTs out of this substantial part of their earnings.

Also during our clandestine meeting, the disgruntled FT asked me: �Did they make any special promises to you that don�t actually appear in the contract?� Uh, yeah� he continued, �Don�t fall for it.� They will tell you �Trust us, but will later �forget� any such special agreements.� I�m thinking, OK, I�m outta here. I thanked him profusely for his honestly, and split.

About 2-3 months later, I learned that my friend the education manager, in a heated exchange with higher management, quit Web over the rental reimbursement trick with the FTs. It seems most the full time FTs were threatening to walk out soon if the situation was not remedied. When Ed. Mgr. could not get administration to change the policy, he too, decided it was time to go.

He first went to Nigeria for a translation job, but after a year, returned and began working as the education manager for a rival training school in Nanjing.

[cj750]

On a recommendation..I went to Wall Street once and found all white short sleeve shirts with stripped ties....

First problem was parkin the bike near their office tower...which cannot shadow a lessor vehicle...

Seemly a English Ant farm..with a white board at one end complete with a animated leader trying out the latest topic with a hopeful eye on the participants wishing to get a glimmer of interest...

Wall Street seems ok for the hoping to get into biz class...but for this long blond haired brother...it was a no go on the oil stains and the Greece under the nails.( I had been to an embassy party the night before)..I knew there had to be a reason that the "Smokin Budda" (you know the one who wear a wife beater and smokes lucky strikes) guided my apparel that day...saved me from a life of sanitised clean office work..

[bdawg]

[frank d]

Wow, bdawg!

Really? Up to 60 training schools in NJ??? I had no idea! I�ve worked for several training schools part-time, and I was under the (obviously misguided) notion that I was familiar with almost all of the NJ training schools. If indeed there are 60 (or perhaps somewhat less) that means there are dozens of �schools� I am not aware of.

In my opinion, Nanjing only has about 6-8 training schools presently in operation. Of course, it also depends on one�s definition of training school. The place I am presently teaching part-time is geared toward IELTS training almost exclusively, so my bosses at the other training schools do not consider that one to be in direct competition with them, because they offer a different (and less specialized) type of English training service.

If you wish to discuss this in more detail, perhaps PM is best� It�s up to you. I�d love to know exactly where you are working. Perhaps I�ve worked there also at some point. I�m quite intrigued about the current "cash flow" situation, and certainly hope that you and your colleagues (and the Chinese staff) don�t get burned!

One reason I'm usually not very sympathetic toward training schools when they find themselves in "cash flow" crisis, is because they create such high overhead for themselves. They usually set up shop in high-rise, high-rent buildings and make their organization top-heavy with Chinese staff. The huge operating costs make them desperate for high (and unreasonable) monthly revenues, which in turn causes the "course consultants" to make endless false promises to perspective customers. When the customer plunks down lots of cash for limited services (far from what was originally promised to them) they soon become disgruntled and sometimes contact the local media. It's a common public relations disaster cycle.

Best, fd

[frank d]

I just called several of my current and former training schools students and friends, and most of them estimate there are about 20-30 training schools in Nanjing. Again, this is rather surprising to me.

[bdawg]

should have clarified...not 60 training centers like Web/Canilix etc. but rather that quoted number includes small operations which employ largely chinese staff. Also ops that only cater to childern, kindergaarten etc.