Job Discussion Forums

[Glenski]

Ok, let's address this topic separately from the other thread I started. This question seems to have become buried with the second question in that other thread.

So, for all of you out there who have "heard" something like "there is a lot of money" or maybe even "there's easy money" to be made in Japan, where and when did you hear this?

[Celeste]

I think that this myth has continued for so long because the Japanese nationals that most people encounter overseas are wealthy tourists. I encountered many a Chanel wearing, Gucci toting, Versace buying Japanese tourist when I lived in Vancouver, BC. A lot of people who work in the service industry encounter them too. I think that this causes less educated people to assume that everyone in Japan is rich.

Also, I blame TV. I remember during the Olympics in Nagano, there were broadcasts about the local culture that I found to be stereotyping. Of course they showed the snow monkeys, the tea ceremony, and women demonstrating the proper way to wear a Kimono, but the also showed people buying $100 watermelons, grapes that cost $1 each, people blowing ridiculous sums at Pachinko parlours. I don't think they showed any of the typical middle class stuff that people do or buy - that sort of thing wouldn't fit the stereotype that Westerners already have about Japan.

I personally came to Japan after a stint in Korea, and teaching at a private ESL school in Vancouver, because the money here was better than what I could earn in Vancouver, and the lifstyle not as difficult as Korea. I earn a good living here, and my husband and I hope to buy some real estate back in Canada after a year or two. We would certainly not tell people that the streets are paved with gold, but we will tell them that with hard work and frugal living, we are able to save quite a nice amount of money each month.

[cafebleu]

Hello Glenski, you don`t know me but I have read many of your posts at this cafe and gaijinpot - you probably post elsewhere, too! I respect you for your intelligent views and willingness to help others.

I would agree with Celeste on the point about the bubble economy. That is chiefly why Japan gained a reputation in western, English speaking countries as a literal goldmine of opportunities to make money. Even now many otherwise decent books on Japan seem to give the impression that Japan is a wealthy country - and to many uninformed foreigners who know that some Japanese like learning English or need to learn English, this means that money and opportunities abound.

Having lived here for a while I would disagree that Japan is a wealthy country. The reality is the lifestyle is poor compared to an average lifestyle in western countries, yet prices are very high. Being someone interested in heirarchies and class politics, I would also argue that many Japanese workers are working class, not middle class.

The Japanese themselves don`t want to admit this and again otherwise good books on Japan play up the wealth of the Japanese. That is misleading, especially as the middle classes who like to learn English (along with the relatively wealthy) are not going to get better off - they are going to see drastic cuts in their income and standard of living in the next decade or so.

To get back to that bubble topic - I must say, Glenski, that I actually knew fellow countrymen and women who went to Japan around 1989 - 1993. And some of those people were making money that seems like a fairytale to me on the 250,000 yen per month base (not that I am complaining - I did not come to Japan to find a supposed goldmine!) salary I live on. One person I knew well enough to know she was telling the truth, bought a house in my city when she came back from her time spent teaching English. Her boyfriend had a basic Science degree and was making a little less than 400,000 a month.

It seems I came to Japan at the wrong time! I am a qualified teacher yet those people I knew were pulling in the money and had many requests for private teaching. So it is a myth that Japan is a goldmine as we know but for some lucky people back in the time period I have indicated, to a point this myth was a functioning reality. I still get people I know asking me if I have bought a house yet with the money I am earning in Japan - what a laugh! I just tell them how much things cost here and that tends to silence them!

[andrew murphy]

I disagree. Japan was and is a wealthy country. Unfortunately people equate wealthy country with earning lots of money as an EFL teacher. Whilst Japan is a wealthy country the cost of living is also high. The unsuspecting may also find that the standard of living does not live up to their expectations.

[cafebleu]

Hi Andrew, maybe I am misinterpreting your post but you seem to be saying that I am equating a wealthy country with money earned by foreigners teaching English. Sorry but I am not.

I see your location is Australia but you may have lived in Japan or may be living in Japan at present. However, I would point you in the direction of a simple fact - in terms of standard of living for all people here (not just talking about foreigners) apart from the rich elite, Japan is far from a wealthy country.

In terms of basic facilities - roads, sanitation, recreational spaces (seen the lovely gravel and sand everywhere on those?) it can be credibly argued that Japan is more a third world country than a first world one. Yes, prices are high but that means nothing - it does not mean that most Japanese enjoy a concurrent high quality lifestyle.

Sure there are all those savings, much of which is concentrated in the postal savings system. However, given the extortion-like death duty taxes, for example, or the fortune it costs to buy a small piece of land and build a house made of materials that even the Japanese always complain about and which would be associated with housing for the poor in western societies, those savings are absolutely essential.

You pay very high costs for sub-standard goods and services. Salaries for the Japanese are `high` here compared to say, those in Australia or New Zealand. But those same Japanese salaries damn well have to be relatively high given what you get for the large sums of money you dole out for everything - value for money is not a concept in Japan.

I hold to my views on Japan as being more working class than middle class in socio-economic make-up. You will never get the true story from the Japanese themselves as they have an insecure snobbishness that probably comes from a very recent feudal past with the great mass of the people coming from poor rural backgrounds originally.

But as you are in Australia, try reading the work of real Japanese sociologists such as Sugimoto who lives in Australia and is now an Australian citizen. Sugimoto is in touch with the real social and economic position of Japan as opposed to the self-censoring views of the Japanese media and the stereotypes of the western media.

[scot47]

So what is a "wealthy country" ?

Surely GDP per head must be a fair indicator ? Then Japan IS a wealthy country. Does not mean everyone is a millionaire. Doesn't mean that EFL teachers will get rich there. (Switzerland ! Sweden ! Norway !)

[scot47]

Maybe the Japanese have at last twigged. Languages are learned or acquired, not taught. You do not NEED an expensive native speaker teacher standing in front of you to learn the language !

maybe it is wake up time ? I think I will do a distance learning course in flipping burgers.

[Glenski]

Let's stay on topic, folks. If you want to talk about the economy of Japan, please start another thread.

I have only received a couple of true responses to my original question.

For cafebleu, I hope (but suspect otherwise) that people reading the books on finding work in Japan will look at the copyright dates. 1995 means the information was collected 3 years earlier and written a year earlier. So, it's at best applicable to the year 1993, which is a DECADE ago!

But, I guess that's too logical for some.

Ok, so are there any other stories about how people got their false information on the RICHES in Japan?