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[Outsida]

Ran a search but nothing came up except rants about conversation classes.

So, I have a very loosely-defined conversation class. We use a book of topics, which the students hate.

This class runs 2 hours a day, monday to friday.

There are 6 people in the class, aged from about 14 to early 20s. Two young boys and four older girls.

So I'm trying to find out what worked for you in these classes. There is no goal for this class, apart from getting them to discuss topics. They don't have anywhere near the vocabulary required to discuss anything, however.

Moreover, they think everything is boring. The book is boring, topics are boring, the class is boring, games are boring. That's about the only word that ever comes out of their mouths. It's really disheartening to hear, and I am starting to dread this class. Strange thing is, today they told me I am better than another teacher. Perhaps it's insincere flattery.

I asked them to make a list of topics they'd like to talk about for homework. Between 6 of them, they came up with just 3 topics - the environment, movies, and prostitution.

They then suggested to me that I find them some interesting topics to talk about. How lazy can you get!

We started with movies today, but apart from one semi-successful exercise (mentioned on another thread), they were comatose. I could hardly get anything out of them. I've tried games, but the girls consider themselves above such stupidity, and the boys don't even want to be there. I tried to correct their mangled English, but they called that boring, I tried teaching vocabulary, but this is something they just write down and ignore my suggestions to use. I'm thinking culture, but what exactly? I don't even really know what to begin teaching there, or how to get them talking about it. Plus their general knowledge is woeful.

The trick is finding good activities to get them talking and that appeal to two distinct groups - they hate group work, hate role plays, hate writing, don't have any ideas about ANYTHING, and are generally a nightmarish class to teach. Personally, they are nice enough people, but my God!

So, what REALLY worked for you? I am at a dead end here.

[cj750]

try a more structured offering..such as choosing a theme..you choose..make them list three things they think about the subject. Ask them to form three sentences to approach the conversation. then have them list the first one on the board and invite comment..follow with the other two..although I have never encountered a xclass like this..it does seem a challenge..

[Outsida]

Good idea. Thanks.

Yes, this is one of the driest classes i've ever had. I preferred my business english class - which was challenging both for me and them - because it had a point and it was meaty. There was plenty of great stuff to teach them. The book was good. But now that class is over.

It is partly to do with the teacher. I got dropped into this class because the boss decided a different accent would do them good Their last teacher is very good friends with these students on a personal level, so his class is more like a group of friends chatting. They don't know me at all, nor I them. I'm not sure what interests them when it comes to topics.

I have a company class that is nothing like this. Despite the fact that these guys are in their 30s and are forced to stay back two hours after work for the class, they're fantastic to teach. This class, OTOH, has two hours of work to do A DAY and they can't even handle that!

[kev7161]

I still feel that, in general, "conversation" classes are a joke. A lot of times, students may use a word such as boring because they don't know many other words. If their English is at such a low-level, then they may seem resentful or uninterested because they are really a little embarrased to give spoken English a try.

My suggestion is to forget about "spoken" English for awhile. Like the previous poster suggested, have them write down some things they want to say (often their written English is smidge better than their spoken). Have them write a short passage then, in class, have them trade with a fellow student and see if the fellow student can find (and correct?) the mistakes. Have them read the passages outloud and you or your students can critique (gently, of course) the spoken English (pronunciation, word usage, sentence structure, verb tenses, etc.). As for "games", if they don't want them, then chuck them. Build their vocabulary by introducing and explaining synonyms, homonyms, and antonyms. Assign a tongue twister for them to master in "X" number of days/weeks. Give a topic on the board and write 5 or 6 questions on the board. Answers to each question must include 3 or 4 sentences. Have a model exercise prepared for them that you created yourself to show them how you want this assignment to be done. How about word origins? Why do we use the prefix "sub" to describe such things as subway or submarine? Of course, we all know that sub=below, but do they (of course, this is a simple example - there are THOUSANDS of words and prefixes and suffixes you can choose for the lesson(s) )?

If you are lucky, and some of the ideas above are somewhat successful, then the "spoken" part of "Conversational English 101" may come more naturally.

By the way, the age differences can also play a major role in why these students are so reticent.

[Outsida]

Thanks, Kevin.

Mmm, I might just give writing another shot. I'm thinking of playing a semi-game with the new vocab, since I write so much on the board each day. Perhaps an explanation of word roots or antonyms et al would be a good idea. I'm planning to limit the amount of new vocab and drill just a few words into them each day.

Your idea of peer critique is a good one and I've tried it before (not with this class) but the results are terrible. The students switch off and don't listen to each other, and at the end they all say they didn't see anything wrong with it. Either they weren't listening or they couldn't spot the mistakes. Argh!

Funny, I played basketball with one of the boys yesterday... his English is actually pretty good. I guess he just doesn't like spending his summer in a class that his mother drags him along to (she's in the class next door).

[ColinA]

Try this game.
If there a 4 rows of seats divide each row into a team.
Give each row a "different sentence as complex as their level allows.
Option1
e.g. "Yesterday, he went to the bookstore to buy a science book".
Now each student turns to the next and must quietly pass on the sentence.
The end person must then write it on the board.
Option 2
As the sentence is passed on, each student must change one word only. If the verb is changed first time, then the next player must change another: time, tense, subject, object, adjective etc.
Last person must write the new sentence on the board.
Students then discuss changes.
The sentence might now read: "Tomorrow, he will go to the market to sell his fresh fruit".

[dajiang]

ideas galore on my humble weblog:
http://eslmaniac.web-log.nl

I've posted only the ideas that worked for me.
You've got a very small class size. That's good, use it.

try the cookbook.

Dajiang

[Outsida]

Thank you, Colin and Dajiang.

The ideas cookbook is not really full of useful speaking activities. Remember, I said they b*tch and moan about games and refuse to participate in them.

CJ's suggestion worked quite well today. Thanks again, CJ!

[dajiang]

Ah, ok.
Well they might think games are for kids.

So just don't call it games then. I try centering any activity on usefulness. So this includes an introduction, lead-up, the activity and a follow-up, which can be related in any way as long as it's evident. Have you tried explaining to them why it's useful?

Also, it could work to make a short outline at the start of the class, saying what you are going to do. Put it up in a corner on the white or blackboard, and then start the class. This provides structure and students can follow you more easily.

Try to have as few rules as possible. Easy games are good, or activities that are based on a similar premise. This will make sure they know what you want straight away, and it doesn't seem to be a planned game, but a spontaneous learning activity.

Just one more thing then: treat them like adults. If they get a sense of responsibility they will act like it. You might be doing this all along for all I know, but it's a good thing to remember anyway. When I do games I go about them quite seriously. The stupider the games are, the funnier they get when you are more serious. Games appear to be much more than games then.

G'luck
Dajiang

[7969]

[no_exit]

I usually dread "conversation classes" because usually you end up with a bunch of students who want their "oral English" to magically improve without them ever having to say a word. That said, it can be fun too, if you know some tricks and can get your students to improve their attitude.

I agree with some of the earlier comments about structure. Chinese students are not used to having freedom in the classroom. Even if you give them topic ideas, you'll often have them sitting there silently come "discussion time," as they don't know what to say. Often it is impossible to not use writing at all. Something as simple as pairing them up, giving them a detailed scenario, and having them write dialogues, and then reading those dialogues out loud can be good for breaking the ice. Something like, "you run into your friend at the supermarket and she tells you some very shocking news." Give them a structure, but also room to play around. If you're lucky you'll have some jokers in the class who take joy in creating ridiculous scenarios, but you've got to give them the chance.

Give them pictures and have them tell a story about the picture. My colleague taught me a great activity where they were given magazines with lots of pictures of people in them. They had to cut out a pic of one person, then describe what kind of person they thought the guy in the picture was, his likes, dislikes, personality traits, etc. Then he paired the students up and made them roleplay their made up characters, meeting each other for the first time. The students really get a kick out of this one, and it seems to help having the pictures as a guide, to jog their brains a bit. They get intimidated sometimes if asked to create a scenario or a character from scratch, but if you give them something to start with, they'll run with it.

Pull a short news story off the internet. Something quick, and preferably pop-culture related. Have them quickly go through and find all the new words. As they share their new words, ask other students if they know the definition, make it a game to see how many words they can guess correctly. Then, put a few questions on the board about the topic. I did this with my students with an article on Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes. They eat this kind of stuff up, especially if they are anywhere from 15-30. I used the article to segueway into Scientology and asked the students if they thought, based on the description, if Scientology was a religion, or a cult, and why famous people did crazy things (haha). It didn't take much to get them talking about Scientology vs. the Falun Gong and pop religion in general. This wasn't a terribly advanced class, by the way, intermediate adult's class, and half of the students were only about 14 years old.

Anyhow, these classes can be fun, but you have to be creative and be prepared for a little bit of trickery. If you just throw a topic out there -- "Globalization: discuss!" then they're going to sit there blankly. If you structure the class, give them defined questions, goals, and don't give them a choice whether to speak or not (don't wait for volunteers, for example, just call on someone. Gradually they will all get used to speaking, even the shy ones), then they'll get more out of the class and won't feel as resentful about coming to a class that they feel is too ambiguous to suit their needs.

[Outsida]

Way ahead of you, no-exit! But thanks. I tried most of what you said in today's class. They grumbled a little but went with it and, it might be my imagination, but they actually got into it and kind of forgot they were in a class. So that was good.

I do make them do writing, but only short pieces and I put a limit on it so they have some idea of what's expected, rather than an open-ended assignment. Today I got them to write 5 sentences about their ambitions and they had to use certain words such as "originally", which prompted them to talk about how others had influenced them.

As for conversation, I usually brainstorm scenarios or opinions and get them to develop conversation from those, rather than just giving them a topic.

I find that asking them questions while they're writing not only takes up less class time, but the others listen because they have something to do in the meantime (rather than just sitting there waiting to speak) but can also take a break from writing to listen to each other.

Today's class was great, so hopefully it will keep improving.

[Tezcatlipoca]

You could always try teaching them how to do surveys...

- First, give each one a different topic (example: Movies, Music, Food, Shopping, etc.).

- Then, have each student right down some vocabulary words they know for those topics.

- Model the two questions: "Do you like... ?" and "Have you ever... ?" and have the students use their vocabulary to write five of each type of question (ten total).

- Have them ask each other or maybe even go outside and pester staff (that's what I do, anyway).

- Model frequency determiners. Example: 100% = All of us, 85% = Most of us, 0% = None of us, etc. Then ask the students questions and have them present their survey results.

[Mallaien]

I have read that online gaming is a big thing in china for that age group. I also play a few online games and come across chinese kids typing pinyin to me. It was this exposure that led me to this site and a intrest into teach ESL. I would think this as topic might spark some intrest, but would probably go better if the teacher has some knowedge of currents games out there.

I have totally reconfigured my computer to type pinyin, and got a phrase book to understand and comunicate in the games.

[sheeba]

Try Music and DVD's . Not just listening and watching but activities designed around the song or film . I think it is important to vary activities and vary your method of teaching . Walk in with a tie and shirt on one day and then go in with T-Shirt and trainers the next . Change your personality from day to day . Be a psycho with a target one day and then chill with your peace pipe the next .

I've just been working with Lithuanians in the UK for 6 hours a day and to be honest they were no different from the Chinese as far as enthusiasm is concerned . You are with these guys for a long time so you need to get to know them on a personal level . That will come with time but really get to understand your students on a personal level .

I agree with some of the good advice above . You need to tell them what you are going to teach them and why it is of use to them . I have found students really respected that . You sound concerned . That's the main thing . Just keep going and remember variety is the spice .