Job Discussion Forums

verity · Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 19 Location: WestCan

Apparently U of Nizwa and CfBT make offers before one sees the contract. Is this now standard? Would most prudent people not insist on seeing the contract first? Things posted in a job advert or mentioned in an interview are really just hearsay if not documented into what one is signing on for.

peterpan13 · Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Posts: 64 Location: neverneverland

With many Middle East contracts, it can be written but not worth a grain of salt!

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

In all my years in the Gulf, I never saw a contract before I accepted and went to any of the universities to teach. As the previous poster said, they are pretty much all in the employer's favor anyway. I made sure that I knew what the pay and benefits were... and what I had been told beforehand was always what I got. But, I stuck to places that had been around awhile and were known commodities.

You have to decide if you are comfortable with this process or not.

VS

Duffy · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 449 Location: Oman

I personally know some of the folks who have been interviewed and offered positions with CfBT and I can say that they were not offered the position before receiving a contract. They were told that their application had been successful and subject to reference checks etc, would receive a contract in due course.

The contracts arrived, some after a delay, but nobody I know found anything seriously untoward. All the details one expects, salary, hours transport, health, leave etc, were all well explained in English (18 pages!)and I have not heard of anyone refusing.

Believe me if I had heard anything "untoward" It would have been posted PDQ!!

Duffy Laughing

verity · Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 19 Location: WestCan

OK, thks folks. Good to know, though it seems Duffy's friends' experience was different: so at the time the contract was sent they were then offered the job? (sorry, early morning here, before having my coffee)

Anyway, if this is the practice, then as VS suggests one just has to go with the flow, or move on.

Duffy · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 449 Location: Oman

Hi Verity,

I checked around after I sent the post and it seems you are right in a couple of cases, some where offered before receiving the contract, however, I think it is as broad as it is long because they still have to have references checked and agree the contract before employment.

I think that out here, sometimes it it a lot better to go with the flow, especially in circumstances where youi will have little if any influence!

Duffy Cool

Tarka_littleotter · Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 69 Location: Oman

Just to add my own experience.....I came without a contract and I didn't see one until about my 3rd or 4th month in the job!

It's just the way things are out here. It's much easier just to go with the flow!

jwbhomer · Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 876 Location: CANADA

Around the end of July, I received a "provisional offer" by e-mail from the University of Nizwa. They said there would be a reference check, visa formalities and so on, but did spell out the salary etc. I e-mailed a "provisional acceptance", asking for clarification of some of the more fuzzy language, and subject to seeing the university and accommodation.
They sent me the provisional offer, with space for me to sign my acceptance, by e-mail, as a .tif file. I couldn't edit the file or sign the document, so asked them to fax it to me, but they never did.
I'm not sure whether it was bad faith or just inefficiency. Anyway, I never did visit, nor did I take the job. I think it's foolish to take a job sight unseen AND without having a contract.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

I doubt that 5% of teachers who go to the Middle East have 'seen' a place before they accept a job and probably 75% go before seeing a final contract. Personally I hadn't seen either the places or the final contracts, but I stuck with the known employers. I did always know the salary and benefits package before acceptance - in writing - if not a 'contract.'

I guess this means that the vast majority of jobs will not be available for you.

VS

jwbhomer · Joined: 14 Dec 2003 Posts: 876 Location: CANADA

VS,
Maybe so, but being cautious has paid off for me at least once. Earlier this year I interviewed with the Guangdong Baiyun Institute, a college in Guangzhou. The two interviews went well and I was offered a position. I asked to see the accommodation and was shown to an apartment in a student dorm which, honestly, was not fit for human habitation. The person who took me said that of course it hadn't been lived in in two years and would be cleaned up. I declined the offer with thanks.
My point is that if someone accepts an offer without seeing it in writing and without meeting the people and seeing the school and the accommodation, one must accept whatever the choose to give you.
Caveat emptor!?

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

That's China, not the Middle East...

I wonder what percentage of ME teachers in their first job here had ever seen the place first... very few. And then there is the problem that one is usually unable to change employers within a country.

This is the risk of EFL in much of the world. If one wishes to avoid risk, one could stay home and teach in the suburbs... ugh...

VS

AllOne · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 23

I'm with you on this one VS. There is risk involved in international EFL, and we must be willing to flow with whatever is going and if it doesn't suit us, get out as soon as we can. On the same note, asking questions and having things clarified in a contract before hand certainly helps prepare one.

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

From what I have noticed through the years on this board is that first timers in any part of the world often don't know what to ask... and they are the ones who end up on here halfway through their first year complaining about what they didn't know because they didn't think to ask.

The most useful purpose of this board is to be able to go with more realistic expectations. You still might arrive and learn that the situation is worse than reported and that what seemed tolerable isn't... Cool

VS

AllOne · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 23

So true, so true VS. I think the trick to doing the ESL route is to go with an open-mind and an adaptable character. I moved around a lot as a kid and went to 15 schools in 12 years, so I am quite independent, friendly, open to new experiences and adapatable - but I have my limits! I need modern plumbing - at the very least, and a relatively peaceful neighborhood.

We cannot always see where we will live and work before hand, or what condition the hospitals are in - not that I hope to spend time in a hospital. I have only needed a doctor twice in the last five years, none the less, it sure does help to know before heading out how things will be taken care of in the unfortunate event that a medical emergency arises.

VS, I take it you have lived and worked in Oman but are now back in teh States?

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Yes, modern plumbing and screens for the windows!! But in the Gulf, I would put AC as a necessity, not a luxury.

I'm retired now and back in the US caring for an elderly parent and living on my invested petrodollars. Cool

I did two gigs in Oman - the first back in the 80's and the second around 2000. Before and after I also was in Cairo (no screens!), Abu Dhabi and Kuwait.

VS