Job Discussion Forums

[quickfox]

Just a reponse to bebsi's claim that 82% of Western Europeans and Canadians are middle-class. Curious indeed. While most Japanese, a whopping 73%, claim to be middle-class, I doubt, using the most varied definitions (i.e. aspirations, spending power etc.) that " getting by " would constitute middle-class. The ability to tie yourself to a mortgage for 25 years, with an 'appropriately'-priced car, along with your work and social circle are much bigger indicators. Ultimately it's to do with your perception of yourself and the ability to consume and if at all possible, using private services (schools, hospitals etc.). As for the U.S., Chomsky claims there is in the U.S. media an avoidance of that five-letter word: class. Telling!

[Bebsi]

I'm not sure if it's 82% exactly, but it is certainly around that. Then again, a lot depends on the criteria used to define middle-class, of course. Generally, I and many others would understand it to mean 3rd level education, white-collar job, ability to live in reasonable comfort, car-owning, ability to own or rent a house or apartment of clean, habitable standard, etc. Needless to say, not all of these criteria are necessary.

For example, in Germany, Japan and many other countries most people rent all of their lives and never own their house, while in Ireland/UK the majority aspires to ownership. Likewise, income cannot be taken as a factor, as many people with low levels of education earn more in certain blue-collar jobs than many lawyers, engineers, doctors etc.

What definition do we ultimately use, then? I would suggest that education is a large factor. Here in Romania, even those in professional jobs, such as doctors, teachers, nurses, managers and engineers are earning salaries that would have them ranked below the poverty line in western Europe (along with most other Romanians, sadly), while a small minority own large mansions with swimming pools, drive expensive german cars and wear only designer labels. Members of this latter group are frequently very poorly educated, are often extremely inarticulate, rarely speak English (unlike the "middle-classes", most of whom have at least a small knowledge of the language), have virtually no environmental, health or safety awareness and would, by these and other criteria, not fall into the category middle-class as we generally understand it. OK, many of those just described also derive their lavish incomes from rather 'unclarified' sources!!

In KSA, there's a small percentage that are very rich, there's a slightly larger (and growing) middle-class that fits most of the criteria described above and finally, a much larger proportion, poorly educated, living in conditions that fall well below what is considered acceptable in the west. The current administration is very much aware of this, and it appears to me, are genuinely trying to rectify it by making 3rd level education much more widely available. Only time will tell how successful they will be.

[Bebsi]

[blindjackdog]

Kurt Vonnegut estimated that seventeen percent of the world's population have lives worth living. He didn't seek to justify the claim, which is how all claims should be made.

That was some years ago. I wonder if the figure's changed.

Somehow being an 'educated' (ie, having just enough information about the world to feel almost as worthless and ignorant as you actually are) Canadian with a 'white collar' (ie, tedious and humiliating) job, a house (ie, a depressing box where the wife and kids lie in wait and the television's always seemingly one channel short of what you really want), and a car (ie, the increasingly expensive sanctuary you enjoy between job and house, which, while your only source of pleasure is also, in that, a daily reminder of how miserable you are) doesn't sound like a life worth living to me.

No slur on Canada or Canadians intended.

[Bebsi]

Spoken like a true TEFL backpacker, Blindjackdog!!



Seriously, BJD, are you implying that only Canadians have what we consider a middle-class existence...or at least your interpretation of it...or that such a middle-class existence is not worth living in Canada only, and is much better elsewhere? Your point is unclear.

Speaking for myself, I live in a very nice apartment, drive a wonderful car (which I love to the extent that Mrs B is thinking of suing for divorce on grounds of adultery LOL), and have a large TV with a range of English language channels which, while there is always room for improvement, is OK considering I am based in Romania.

Is it a perfect existence? Sure aint!! However, it certainly beats living in a tin/plywood hovel in a muddy village with an unpaved "road", using a hole in the ground for toilet purposes, wearing rags and walking many miles in extreme climatic conditions just to reach school, shops, hospitals etc. Many more of the world's population exists like this than lives the way BJD describes, including a sizeable minority in parts of Romania. Would they swap their idyllic way of life for the hell of a larger, more solid house with the curses of bathroom, electricity, heating, air-conditioning, fitted kitchen etc, and the motorised misery of a car?

Hmmmmmmm....gee, I have to think about that. Or maybe, it's just that BJD means that they wouldn't want to be Canadian?

Well, OK, Bruce Willis at the end of Die Hard 3 propounded the view that he didn't normally find Canada a very exciting place due to its lack of violent crime, but I rather liked Canada, finding its citizens to be quite civilised, very clean, extremely polite and rather self-effacing despite their high living-standards.

Each to his own, I suppose!!

[blindjackdog]

"No slur on Canada or Canadians intended."

Unforgivably ambiguous use of language, obviously.

I still own and cherish the stuffed toy orca that was bought for me by my indulgent parents on a hot day at the Vancouver Aquarium some fifty thousand years ago.

I guess my point, if I had one, was that it is curious what a dreadful waste us priveleged middle-classes make of our material advantages; I was reflecting a sensibility described below as a "good miracle" by a writer infinitely more insightful and articulate than myself:

"Perhaps miracles are still possible,� both evil miracles, such as occur when excesses of ill treatment are transformed to joy,� quite common in this era,� and the reverse, when excesses of well-being at length bring an anguish no less painful for being metaphysical,� good miracles."