Job Discussion Forums

[benny2]

Hiya, just wondering if anyone else knew much about changes in the rules (apparently as of july this year) in Sichuan.

I have an American friend was due to come from USA to work at my school, but she has been rejected by the government. It seems you now require 2 years teaching experience and a degree to be accepted....She has teaching experience, but not yet 2 years, that being the only discrepancy.

I'm confused as to how these rules will affect people who already have contracts and resident permits in sichuan. It seems that If they do not meet these criteria they be unable to update their foreign expert book, and therefore can't continue to work in the province.....???

This must be a contributing factor in my school's inability to hire new foreign teachers this term, and why they're asking me to find them people!!!

[adamsmith]

If these rules are actually comming into force and are enforced equally accross the board - ahhaha, then this might actually help reduce the number of backpackers/missionaries etc.. that keep the wages down. As more and more schools fall prey to these rule changes we those of us who do have the experience etc may benefit from the increased demand for our presence.

[Steppenwolf]

In much of the rest of China, this rule obtained long before, and still obtains. Why should the Chiense hire total neophytes?

[Tezcatlipoca]

[diana83709]

My husband and I renewed our contract for another year in Sichuan. One thing that I have observed are the missionaries here to "spread the word" and I do not know what has to do with teaching Englsih.

Upon our initial entrance to China, we were ethically advised NOT to discuss religion or politics. We have also been approached by some of these folks locally about joining their church and have refused. Then, they stick their noses up and walk away.

We did not come to China to convert these wonderful people, but to teach students the English langauge. In the USA, we have the Mormon Missionaries constantly knocking on our doors tying to convert us. If one showed up here, I would probably have to ask them in for a beer. Sorry - no disrespect intended, but that is my opinion!

China has a very old culture and we respect that. We are not here to change their lives into ours - we are here to teach the language. We can understand the strictness of the visa issues. Really, who can blame them. It is their country and their culture. As teachers, we are supposed to come here to give the gift of the English language!

If I were to see see a couple of guys here riding bikes, wearing black dress pants, white shirts, ties, name plates (Elder who ever) on the shirts, and helmets, I would run - and very fast!

Teachers are here to share cultural issues and language skills for the betterment of the Chinese youth. We are here to help them get into universities and have a better life (economically).

The people of Nanchong are some of the greatest people we have ever known. We value the local friends we have made in the past year. But, I think that if you are here trying to religiously convert the Chinese, do it on another visa! Not a teaching one!!!! In my opinion, that is a double standard! Either teach or preach! Get the correct visa and let those who really want to teach - teach. I would think that if one truly believes in God and all the greatness, then one would be honest in applying for the correct visa! Double standards are not a good thing....... especially if one considers themself a religious person... hmmmmmmm.....

Best of luck to you all!

[tofuman]

Diana, I'm surprised to hear about these "wonderful" people. I've been here going into my fourth year. I don't believe that these folks are "wonderful" at all. I have never in my life seen such dishonesty and deviousness, even among people who have no immediate benefit from their lying and scheming.

Clerks in large stores lie to me to get me to buy their products. FAOs pledge their undying devotion while deceiving and scheming. Individuals come with smiles and gifts but can become quite abusive once their bluff is called.

Adultery is rampant and university students expect it as part of their marriage relationship.

Simply put, the value system of the Chinese has no JudaeoChristian platform; consequently, concepts such as truth and fidelity are not considered virtues.

I'm not very thrilled about the "missionaries" here, either. Many of them teach "Christian" doctrines that are divisive and unsettling to believers in the West, such as predestination and tongues speaking.

If "missionaries" simply taught the gospel of Christ's death and resurrection, no harm would be done. It usually results in happy, purpose driven individuals who are willing to reasonably cooperate with governmental authority.

The TaiPing Rebellion, one of the bloodiest civil wars the world has ever seen was the consequence of an unbalanced mind and false Biblical teaching.

"Missionaries" also have driven English teaching wages down because some are underwritten by churches in the West; consequently, they work for less and suffer little or no harm. It is especially injurious because the places they work, such as major universities, are capable of paying more. The result is misdirected charity, depriving truly needy places of funds while the Chinese enrich themselves. Other foreign teachers, such as yourself, are lowballed and told to take a hike if you are not willing to work for peanuts.

The English language has been profoundly shaped by Bible translations into that language. If you would like to gauge the changes of the language, an easy way to do it is to simply look at different Bible versions that have come out through the years. Neither American nor British culture and history can be truly understood or taught without reference to the influence of Christianity. I am often asked about American and Chinese culture. A simple yet profound difference is Christian influence in the respective countries.

The fact that you think that you can teach English and culture without reference to religion identifies you as part of the problem. The Chinese lust for money would have them strip the West of what made it what it is--Christianity.

There are certainly exceptions to what I have outlined above with reference to various individuals in China. Perhaps it is my location that has given me such a dark view of these, as you say, wonderful people.

[WordUp]

It is a new trend as of last year.. They are doing the same thing in Hunan and the Foreign Affairs department is the operator behind it.. and they are very inflexible (at least in hunan) about this..

[KES]

[Steppenwolf]

Steppenwolf is a trifle confused now - is missionary work regarded as "teaching-relevant experience"? He has never preached nor promoted the "Christian" gospel (he believes Jesus CHrist would be aghast at seeing what his modern spiritual followers are making out of his message!). He can teach English without resorting to the Bible, and he thinks this is berst. As for cultural overlapping and cross-fertilisation, of course, teaching a lingo means cross-fertilising another culture, full stop.

BUt us laowai should respect the law, and the law of tyhis country takes inspirtation from western laws; the Chiense had no laws for hundreds of years and owe their laws to cultural contacts with the West. Westerners therefore ought to show a willingness to abide by their laws, and that's apparently a bit of a challenge for some here.

I maintain my contention: the requirement for FTs to have relevant teaching experience has been on the books for quite some while and at least down south in Guangdong, it has been respected for several years. I am sure it also has been in force in many other parts of China although I can well imagine that some authorities disregarded and still disregard it.

But with the heavy influx of job-seeking laowais the recruiters can now be more picky.

Good luck to the two sides!

[cj750]

[Indiana Jones]

I have an Associate Diploma of Professional Writing & Editing. This two-year diploma focused on intensive study of the english language, grammar and structure. I also have a CELTA.

So tell me why I'm not qualified to teach english in China, yet someone with a degree in dog grooming is?

The other side of the argument is that having a degree doesn't -- and should not -- automatically qualify you to teach ESL. The emphasis should be on what you've studied, and if you studied it well. Just as there are thousands of backpackers and missionaries mucking up the ESL system in China, surely there are just as many people with degrees who are terrible teachers. I'm talking about conversational and written english teachers, by the way.

Right now, I'm slogging my way through university to get a degree, at great personal expense. Despite being fully qualified to teach ESL, the powers that be (and the elite of the ESL mobs) demand a degree. It boggles my mind why everyone is so focused on three-year degrees and ignoring other, more applicable qualifications.

If we want to see improvements in ESL teaching, we must move past the degree requirements, and expand recognised and reputable CELTA qualifications instead. If I were a school hiring an ESL teacher, I'd prefer to choose the applicant with CELTA but no degree over the applicant with a degree but no CELTA.

So I'm going to slog through university for the next two years, despite already being qualified to teach ESL. It's frustrating. Especially being over the age of 31 and no longer qualifying for a WHV.

[Shan-Shan]

I second your opinion, though do not feel that CELTA is the be all and end all in ESL qualifications. There are other certificate programs available that require a year's worth of training and practicum experience that are certainly of equal or greater value than CELTA (which, I believe, is one month?). Relying only on one program to train every single ESL teacher seems disturbing. Were all ESL teachers CELTA trained, it would stifle the evolution of teaching approaches. CELTA, like any other program, cannot cover every area of the English language. The training I received, for example, included a large component on phonetics, an aspect of language that my CELTA certified co-worker knew very little about. Yet when it came to teaching methodology, we were on par (mind you, he did "squat" more in class when speaking with students, a technique hammered into him by his CELTA trainers)

Those weekend or 40 hour courses are a poor excuse of a credential; but CELTA is not the only route to being an English language trainer.

As for the degree requirement, I also agree that a degree does not make a teacher. Having multiple laurels in Chemistry, for example, or Physics seems to have little in relation to language teaching. The "degree in anything" demand just goes to show how looked down upon the ESL industry is. Except for fast food, washing cars or being an office clerk, I can't think of many other professions with such lax requirements.

[cj750]

The employment process is a negative one in which subtraction from the potential pool of possible candidates is a "last one standing" sort of choice process...the requirement for a degree is merely an elimination element indicating that this candidate has obligated himself for at least three years to obtain skills to use in the job market...

[Tezcatlipoca]

Hundreds of teachers are hired in Guangzhou every year, fresh out of college with no experience.

Again, if rookies are never hired, then how the hell are rookies supposed to get experience?

[Tezcatlipoca]

Furthermore, what about the rookies who come in with new ideas and hit the ball out of the park?

I know The New Roger would never believe this, but not all rookies are scum to be scraped from the bottom of the old-hands' shoes... some are actually good teachers.