Job Discussion Forums

Arno · Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 14

Hi!

Can anyone help me on where to get the email addresses and phone numbers of the above. Right now I need to know whether Sichuan and Heilongjiang require degrees. I don't have a degree and my present school forged one for me (this I found out after five months). So I think the best course of action would be to phone these organizations and check with them whether I can work in a particular province / city and also check whether the school may employ foreigners. I'm in Zhejiang. Elsewhere on the forum I read that Zhejiang doesn't require a degree to issue FEC's. I asked a recruiter to check with the office in Hangzhou and he was told that a degree is required.

Thanks.

tw · Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 3898

Arno · Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 14

Thanks TW. Deceiving people and benefitting from a "degree" that I did not earn go against my principles. Once I know the fake degree exists and I don't do something about it I am an accomplice.

Schools apparently often claim to be licenced to hire foreigners when they're not. That's why I think it's a good idea to check with the authorities. I know Chinese people who help me with the communication.

cj750 · Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 3081 Location: Beijing

You may set yourself up to never be hired by any organisation ..as it is a requirement for all FTs in all provinces to have a degree..

NathanRahl · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 509

Hmm, I can not fault your principles, though mine would say that since it was not my lie, nor was I aware of it, that it was not my problem. But at the same time, to benefit is to be complicit, that is true, and I wouldnot be wholly comfortable with it, no. However principles are the last thing to do, or the first, depending on how pragmatic you are. Bottom line, ask yourself what is more important to you, making a living, eating, enjoying your job, or following your "principles". You did not get the fake degree, you did not do anything wrong, the fact that whoever recruited you did is not your fault, so why should you suffer for it? Unless of course you choose to. You have a choice to make I guess, be happy, or don't. If follwing your principles makes you happier then working this job, do that, otherwise, I'd keep my mouthshut, and forget about it. I may applaud your principles, but I would have to say your more an idealist then a realist. Also keep in mind, it is a small technical difference, and having a degree means next to nothing in my opinion. Many of the smartest and wisest people I have known did not possess them, and to have one doe's not make one smarter, or vice versa. Keep this in mind when you think about turning yourself in and ending your ESL career, which you would be doing, cause the whole business is pretty much exactly like this. Also, try and remember, it's not like your working for a big tobacco company and can't stand he guilt of knowing they are lying to everyone and killing millions, so you had to quit, and blow the whistle. Think about what your doing before you martry yourself, and ask yourself, is it worth it Wink

Arno · Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 14

From what I've read the regulations are quite flexible. As someone put it to me, in areas where there is "less language development", FEC's may be issued to non-degree holders. I contacted the Experts Bureau in Hubei and the lady there told me for Hubei a High School Diploma and a TEFL certificate are sufficient to obtain an FEC. As far as I know if there is a severe shortage of teachers in a specific area even people with only a High School diploma may be eligible to receive an FEC.

WordUp · Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 131

probably not a good idea to contact them unless you speak amazing Chinese. Zhejiang requires a diploma to work there. Your ethics are intact but I suspect in the next year there wont be any location that won't require a degree.. so its time to make a choice.. Go back to school or try to deal with visa issues in the near future..

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

Wordup, that's a nice link above, although I question the site a bit. It doesn't seem to be an official government site (forgive me if i am wrong or misunderstanding there). I mean ".ORG" seems a bit strange to me for an official site. I still like the info provided on....rather helpful.

Peace
and
cheers and beers Very Happy

Steppenwolf · Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 1769

NathanRahl · Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 509

Yes a word is a sign with an arbitrary meaning, but we all have to agree on that meaning if were going to communicate.

Leon Purvis · Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject:

How do you find out the FT education requirements for a given province?

no_exit · Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 565 Location: Kunming

MrBeijingles · Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 67 Location: Shanghai

The Heilongjiang/Harbin government is ridiculously lax and the government office in Harbin is in the middle of nowhere so I would avoid going there. From what I've heard from others, you can't even enter it if you are a foreigner.

Arno · Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 14

Thanks very much for the list Steppenwolf.

I wrote to Ms Fen Huang at the Hubei Foreign Experts office and she told me a High School Diploma and a TEFL certificate are sufficient to obtain an FEC in Hubei.

dave_merk · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 208

Another Heilongjiang degree question. I'm starting to feel like an expert on this topic...

Ok, I dunno about other provinces, but I've lived in Harbin since 2003 and have been legal ever since. I DO NOT HAVE A DEGREE, however I work at a licensed school that has been hiring foreign teachers for damn near 15 years. Their connections and influence have been invaluble. I came over with a Z visa, was issued the old school green book and FEC, had all that until last year when I was given the new RPF. The renewal processes have been a snap: you fill out the pertinent forms at the PSB, then give them a stamped form from the Education Bureau, a copy of your school's license, and then pay. Barring anything weird you'll have your stuff back in a week or so. The FEC renewal was even easier and basically consisted of showing the paper from the Education Bureau to some guy at the FAO and he grunting something at a secretary who signed and stamped my FEC and gave it back to me. It was finished the same day. It was, as someone else said, "ridiculously lax," owing to a few elements that I think are unique to Heilongjiang (it's boring, ridiculously cold, and did I mention that it's boring and cold?), not the least of which is a serious lack of good foreign teachers here. I would estimate that there are probably only 200-300 foreigners for the entire province and a substantial number of those aren't even native speakers. They've even got Russians teaching English in some places.

However, for the record, I was asked for my degree back in '03 when I first got here. I gave them a copy of my high school diploma and never heard anything about it ever again. I understand the OP's ethical dilemma and everything, but if you get all your documents in order THEN YOU'RE IN. You don't have to worry about anything: the renewal process is totally painless and, unless you change schools, should only be a minor annoyance each year. Also, what difference does a degree, forged or otherwise, make if you truly are planning to be a dedicated educator? So it got forged for you, so what? Now you have all your certificates and now you can start working and earning your cred. Ethically speaking, I don't really think a degree makes a huge difference if you're willing to actually do a good job.

That all having been said, I'm going to start distance education courses for a BA (with an accedited and recognized school, of course) to cover my ass just in case...