Job Discussion Forums

[Will.]

A thought occurs to me re: all the whingeing and moaning about schools, agencies and soon, far too soon, the annual summer school invasion of EFL lemmings that will soon be upon us again


This is from Lolwhites input on the UK forum re; good schools

Out of interest, on what grounds do you recommend them? Pay? Hours? Facilities? Working atmosphere?

This provoked me to ask what exactly newly qualified Celtees and more experienced teachers want to obtain from teaching ELT. both on a personal and, if this possible, professional perspective. The major employers are influenced in their responses to our input at interview, so surely there must be a perfect interview statement to indicate one's willingness to become part of their brave new captalist venture. This is why we get the job. They can perceive the possibility of making money from having you as a company, or franchisee, employee. This is the purely business exploitation side of it all that we all know and love so well.

Forget the erotic arousal from foreign climes, people and cultures. We all bought the package

What do you want from an employer?

The reference is to experience, pay, qualifications, training, a new language, a real job or a pocket money for a short break job or just some photos and some nick nacks in yer rucksack and some passport stamps before going off to do what 'Mummy and Daddy' (for want of a a better description) (or society) expect(s) you to do

For the newbies do you think you'll get it? and How? Do you really believe the spiel you get at the interview?

The more experienced among you will, of course be able to inform us of just exactly how your first, and subsequent jobs matched the description you received at the interview or in the presentation pack for the first job you accepted.

and
For the wizened old sages and sagesses: Did you think this is what you would get/be when you started out and are you happy with what you have obtained so far. Do you expect to improve your lot or do you see yourself being priced out of the market by the young striplings coming along who are much cheaper. How much of the change (deviation from original plan) and training was internally motivated? Would you not have doen better to have stayed focussed on another trade or profession. Would you (hypothetically) have been as well or better off than you now are?

Bearing all this in mind

Are the deals that the major players are offering us as good as ever, are the offers improving or not. Is ELT becoming a cheaper alternative to the working holiday

[SueH]

A quick reply while my tea is brewing.

There is, of course, the perspective of those late career changers like myself.

I would probably have been better off financially staying with my original company, but they had effectively killed off any further desire to stay in IT, and even more effectively removed my opportunities through lack of training.

I had few exotic dreams of far off places and began teaching French teenagers at a local summer school (after a 20 hour taster course!), and found that I enjoyed it. (No doubt those of you who have taught French teenagers will be muttering under your breath.) My new "career" developed from there with further training and teaching locally. The main concern was not to be exploited _too_ much, and to enjoy my work.

Haven't taught here in Italy yet, but starting in a weeks time, and finding my own work independently means I'll take home double the hourly rate that I'd get in a local language school. I suspect resources are poor, and although I'm team teaching think that I'll have reasonable freedom to teach what I want. My opinion may therefore change on this particular employer.

P.S. Will, any further ideas for my particular group of students?

[travelingirl68]

Good questions OP. Four years ago, I joined the Peace Corps after 12 years doing Non-Profit management and Corporate Training. The lifeling dream of exotic locales had finally pulled me past any money, etc. that could be earned in the US. For the last few years, I have been thinking quite seriously about what to do and where to go with my background and experience - what I want to do, and how I can get the 'package' that I am looking for when it comes to work.

That I can save around $800 a month, travel, take a month (total) vacation every year, live very comfortably in a flat provided by my employer - but chosen by me, get the chance to develop more skills in curriculum development, study Hindi at the expense of my employer (80% anyway), work with a great bunch of people (Western and Indian) has just led me to re-sign with my current organization. Sure, it has its ups and downs, things are at times stressful or boring - but what job anywhere does not have those issues?

I can't comment on the deals offered being higher/lower from the past at most places, and I don't know yet if I want to stick around in this particular area of the field to find out. I know it has done well by me and several (at least) others on this board. For now, I would like to look at slightly different areas - cross-cultural communication in the business world is a particular interest, as is international education, and I am hoping that my experiences abroad can eventually lead to other positions both overseas and at home.

I am also curious to hear from other posters about their past, present and hopeful futures!

[Jetgirly]

Here's what I wanted and got:

- A living wage that allowed me to travel when the school was closed
- Payment for overtime*
- Bus/train tickets reimbursed
- Travel time reimbursed*

Here's what I wanted and didn't get:

- Assistance finding accomodation upon arrival
- Payment for overtime that EXCEEDED my normal hourly wage (we got paid less for overtime hours!)
- Acceptable reimbursement for travel time (averaging EUR 2 per hour- the amount hadn't been adjusted in more than ten years according to senior teachers)
- A decent schedule (I was asked to start at 8.00 am and finish at 21.00 pm, somedays working straight until 15.00 or 16.00 with no break for lunch)
- On-site work within a reasonable distance from the school (in my interview I was told I would be working only in the city center, but that was a blatant lie as my FIRST class was almost 80 minutes by bus from the school)
- Honesty from the administration (I would be asked to cover a class "just this once" because the teacher "was really sick" and then find that class was suddenly permanently assigned to me
- Support from the adminstration (registers processed and return within seven days, information about student's ability level before the class start date, textbooks delivered within eight weeks of being ordered, etc.)
- Teacher development of any sort and a decent amount of supplementary resources at my disposal
- Partial payment for August/Christmas when the school was closed

[tedkarma]

I want - and usually get:

A wage that allows me to live comfortably and to save a bit.

Sufficient time off to pursue other interests (I like a four day week).

A job that is not just one of 25 people doing the same thing - that requires some creativity.

These things can be found in TEFL- but you do have to select your job carefully.

[Calories]

an interview? what? when did that happen? I never had one of those. hahaha.

I got

decent place on campus with no curfew or anything silly like that
decent schedule
decent pay
decent students
decent help when I need it from the school about work or general China things
decent classroom toys (projector thingy for the lap top yay!)

Hmm...now, what do I want?

I'd looooooove to know when I have days off more than 1 day beforehand. I'd like to know when my classes are cancelled in advanced. I'd really enjoy knowing how many more weeks I have left this semester too!

[guangho]

I want...

women, wine and song. No, seriously...

Wages that account for my background and experience and are in line with the amount and type of work I am expected to handle

Promises kept

Some decent materials and guidelines that go beyond "just talk to them"
Some support would be nice too
A bit of professionalism (i.e., don't give me class registers three months into the semester) would hit the spot
Have I mentioned honesty?

[Will.]

Thanks all,

My decison to teach EFL was influenced more by the desire to gain practical experience and another language...plus a job that I could unpack in just about any country I felt like going to. I had about 30-40 under my belt when I started teacxhing.

I visited and worked in a few more, but not as many as i would have liked. I never expected BIG money and never really got it, other than through private lessons. I expected to learn a new language and still use it regularly. I wanted University links and exposure tio use on my return to my own country. This is I also found and it helped me on my return in my search for work in this sector.
I did not expect the quality off the other teaching personnel to be spo low or unprofessional, I trained as a state school teacher in Mnodern languages. The transfer was quite a shock. Examples are likely to be extreme but we have all seen teachers at their worst. Schools which cut corners and students who cheated.
I expected better, better from the teachers, the so-called professionals, better from the schools, thoiugh I did work in some good ones, and a better management system not one based on the only person still standing at the end of the year becomes DOS next year, This making them qualified to give teacher training sessions to newbies arriving wide-eyed the following month.
"Could do better" springs to mind, again but at that time it was more "OK for the short term" It gets me where I want to go.
Does this define your experience in ELT teaching abroad, and at home, or do you believe there is better out there?
Examples on a matchbook please.

[thrifty]

If there was better out there, we would be there rather than where we are now.

The TEFL merry go round mentality keeps the TEFL world spinning because newbies leave to find a better employer who doesn't exist and are cheaply replaced by other newbies.

[Will.]

Yeah, I keep coming back to the quote about teacher turnover in TEFL being about four years. Hardly a career is it?

[thrifty]

I remember when I did the CTEFLA as that ludicrous CELTA was know as in those days, the "teacher trainer" asked us if we were still TEFLing in two years time to send him a postcard to let him know. I did not realise the significance of what he was saying then but now I realise he was trying to get some idea of how few of us would be TEFLing in 2 years time.

[Will.]

Possibly thinking

"If they are still alive they might have some money and be able to do a DTEFLA"

[Stephen Jones]

[ls650]

[Will.]

Yeah that is why I keep coming back to it.

It was an average time spemnt in EFL as a teacher of EFL

Our Ctefla trainer gave it out as a, sort of, fact in a training seesion. Many do not even make it past the first week. Some never manage to exit.
It is the only one I ever heard from anyone in relation to turnovr. I never knew where the info came from. It could, heaven forbid , be anecdotic from that particular organisation.
Perhaps some of the browsers might be able to give us more up to date info from other employers and recruiters. It may help, but as telflers are such a flighty lot they rarely stay with one company for very long either.