Job Discussion Forums

[matador]

Does it want to be/should it be? Pros v. Cons of being a multicultural society....?

[PAULH]

[kitano]

[PAULH]

[cafebleu]

I don't think Matador was thinking along the lines of Japan suddenly giving up all its customs and way of life, etc, to be 'imposed upon' by different ethnic/racial groups.

I took it as meaning Matador was thinking about the degree of multiculturalism possible in a country that publicly talks about internationalisation but doesn't really understand what that logically leads to. In Japan, multiculturalism could mean an end to the myths of racial purity and the kind of education I referred to in another thread. Education that Japanese teacher friends of mine are against.

It could mean the end of consistently labelling Japanese people born in Japan as "gaijin", "hafu", "kankokujin" and even the old racist "sangokujin" which so called "leaders" like Tokyo mayor Ishihara have used publicly with little reaction from most Japanese.

It could mean accepting that foreigner-Japanese marriages are growing and with the Japanese population set to drop by 2050 so much, allowing suitably qualified foreigners to come in as people who will live in Japan for the rest of their lives. I think this kind of multi-culturalism is possible and workable.

Interesting book I read once called "Multicultural Japan" by Japanese authors (maybe with a foreigner author). It traced Japanese people back to a number of different origins and is a fascinating expose of how different regions of Japan with their different people's origins and thus language etc give the lie to the myth of The Japanese Race.

As for how supposedly the USA doesn't allow Muslims their way of life - the USA and UK are societies where people from other countries including Muslims from the Middle East and Asia enjoy legal protection and rights including free speech rights that have no equal in Japan. In parts of New York such as Brooklyn there are Muslim enclaves where a lot of people don't know English and don't try to speak it or learn it. They are allowed to get on with their lives in their own way.

In the UK any number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims live their own way of life especially in my native city of London. There are sections of those communities that would ban dogs as pets from all of the UK, complain about cartoon pigs such as Piglet from Winnie the Pooh, demonstrated in ways that incited violence/hatred against Salman Rushdie and the Danish cartoonist who NEVER portrayed Muhammed as a pig. Thanks to Muslim photoshoppers, a lot of unnecessary hatred was vented. There are a number of Muslims who believe the UK should have Sharia Law.

The fact that they can say all these things and the UK (and in the US with those kinds of Muslims there) protects their right to say it and basically leaves them to get along with their lives which are hardly touched by the host culture, says a lot for the freedoms of the UK and USA. They are not imposed upon. This is multiculturalism according to pluralistic western traditions. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion etc are not part of any number of Muslim societies in the world.

There are also Muslims who have a different viewpoint such as some of my friends in London. They are concerned about the hardliners and point out the irony of people who are so opposed to western culture but benefit immensely from it.

Like the inciting Mullah whatshisname who was doing very nicely from the UK welfare system, all the while preaching hatred against non Muslims in various London mosques. This is also a feature of certain Muslim groups in the USA who are free to do this despite the apparent impostion of American culture upon them.

[womblingfree]

With such a low birth rate I would have thought that mass immigration would be needed in Japan just to keep the infrastructure going.

In the UK in the 50's there was mass immigration of West Indians to help run public services, and in the last few years there has been mass immigration of Polish workers, before that we had Jewish settlers etc. Britain used to be a largely homogenous country and outside of major cities it still is. At least it was homogenous in the minds of many British, the truth being that it was a mixture of Celts, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Vikings, Romans, and probably just about every other European/North African mixture you can think of. In fact half the English language is French thanks to the Norman conquest, as is the St Georges Cross.

If you went back and studied Japanese geneology there would be an equal amount of migratory activity in Japan involving Mongols, Koreans, Chinese, Ainu, Polynesians and whoever else.

Anyway back to the 21st century...

It's not a case of foreigners migrating and sucking the life from a country. If a government wants to strictly control immigration it can stop it, when it occurs it is usually because the government has allowed it because it is needed.

I would say that immigration has added greatly to British society on many levels. Britain does not have 'big problems with its Muslims'. Most muslims in Britain are second or third generation and are inseperable from the rest of the population. We go to school together, play together, work together. They are our doctors, our lawyers, our MP's, our friends, and thousands of muslims have fought and died for Britain in various wars, including Iraq. To seperate them from other British because their faith is not christian is lunacy.

Issues such as the bombings on the tube and radicalisation of fringe groups are a seperate issue, and one which has been caused by Britains involvement in the Iraq war. Stigmatising muslims because of this is akin to blaming all whites for the Klu-Klux Klan.

All groups in societies have their dangerous lunatic fringe groups. In Britain we aslo have the BNP, one of whose supporters exploded bombs in Brixton (to kill blacks), in Brick Lane (to kill asians), and in Soho, (to kill gays). Muslims are singled out by the media these days to justify bloody wars abroad, it's a highly dangerous political manouvere. Some of the anti-muslim stories that have been reported recently in the UK wouldn't have sounded out of place in Nazi Germany.

[luckbox]

[womblingfree]

[Zzonkmiles]

Here's an interesting article on this subject: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14640269/site/newsweek/

I personally think Japan's transition to a multicultural country will be very, very slow. Even though the Japanese are very polite, there is a definite sense that there is a limit on as to how "welcome" you are here. Once you cease being a tourist and start being a long-term resident, these barriers can be very daunting.

Also, Japanese is a very difficult language for Westerners to learn simply because it's so different from Indo-European languages. I'm not sure how many of them are willing to put in the time and effort necessary to learn how to read and write the various scripts. Trying to get by with broken Japanese will not do much for your quality of life, nor will it help you "assimilate" into Japanese culture.

[luckbox]

[womblingfree]

[SeasonedVet]

I once said to a Japanese friend of mine "Asia is for Asians". My Japanese friend agreed.

What did I mean by that?

Well the question here is if Japan wants to be or if it should be a multicultural country.

If you look at Asian countries you will find that they are not far different from Japan in remaining mostly Asian and not becoming multicultural (if we are taking multicultural to mean including various cultures not restricted to Asians. If not well then ... ) Non-Asian foreigners in Asia almost always remain foreign. There is no assimilation to any significant degree.

Some might suggest Malaysia as being different. I like Malaysia and I like the way the cultures co-exist ( I have heard some stories that suggest a few problems here and there though and I have noticed some stuff while there but that is for another post).
But in the end the cultures that co-exist ther are Asian. I don't know if that is enough to put the multi in cultural.

So I said to my friend "Asia is for Asians"

If you get onto some other discussion boards for other asian countries you might very well notice a common theme when it comes to the Foreigner question and when it comes to the multicultural question also.
That's my liitle bit. Thanks for reading.

[PAULH]

[king kakipi]

[gaijinalways]

Yes, I have met some of those same 'liberal' Japanese both online and in person. They are in a sense worse than Japanese who are simply ignorant. Both types often tie themselves in knots trying to support 'arguements' about the foreigners causing trouble here and there. Sometimes instead, I would just simply look at the Japanese themselves that spread these rumors as a lot more dangerous.

Thanks for the Times article Zzonk, it was a good read and more less repeated and confirmed what I have already observed and heard from others in the 9 years I have been here.