Job Discussion Forums

[Klamm]

Do it. Even if, or especially, you're here for the experience. Set the table right, then experience away. See the many poor folk here...you're not taking any money from them! You're probably helping them more than the people who'll take the extra salary you didn't push for (the ones driving the nice cars ).

Watch for schools who sell the "experience" in China or compare your wages to Chinese teachers. Chinese teachers don't bring in the $$$ that you do...that might not be fair, but that's reality. The money goes somewhere...how about you ?

Some other posters on this board (I can think of one whose posts usually resemble a guidebook) might push you the other way, I wonder sometimes on alterior motives there...take my advice, though. Push and sweat for the time before signing, and remember that a boss may not budge an inch for two weeks hoping you'll cave and then suddenly D-Day (or some days after...) arrives and you're salary magical doubles through some miscommunication in the administration.

If you want an "experience" in China, then just save the money working in another richer country that pays more. CHECK THIS BOARD AND COMPARE TO KOREA OR OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES...notice the same ESL troubles? It's business, it's work. If you want to travel, travel. If you want to work and travel, work and get paid for it, then travel during vacation. Don't be a fool! Working and traveling in China can be a great experience, just don't be a sucker .

I'm writing this more for people who actually have a BA or other such education that could qualify them for work in Taiwan, South Korea, or Japan. You have other options. Weigh them. Is the experience of "working" in China worth it? Make sure it is because with your degree you could work in a developed country and save enough working a year there to travel China for a year or some months afterwards. Two years off teaching or traveling, by the way, is Ok and even beneficial to a resume should you desire cubicle space later on .

That's really good advice and free. There may be naysayers responding...but know yourself and what you can do. Again, this is not to raise the university educated vs. those without and whose a better teacher. This is about asking people to use common sense. And...it's so easy to get a job in China...you can't even imagine!!! Don't take your job too seriously. Study, read, think save some, travel, experience etc... .

K.

[Minhang Oz]

While I hope I'm not the guide book writer Klamm talks about, I have to agree. Check out your school's car pool for the latest models, see how many new unused computers and aircons are sitting around: then listen to your school cry poor. The old "three times more than a Chinese professor" - though I think they mean teacher here - line just defies logic, as Chinese teachers aren't native speakers. That's why we're hired.
If we are REALLY needed educationally, schools can afford to pay 8/10 k base. If we're not; that is, we are recruiting window dressing, or freshman bait, and you're willing to take the 3500, then please don't complain. About anything.

[Roger]

If you were thinking of me as that guy with "ulterior motives" in attitudes to remuneration for TEFLers, here is my answer:
It is clearly getting easier to drive up salaries, and I am one of the beneficiaries myself, probably more than yourself.
However, you owe your relatively high income to a bunch of anomalies, the first of which being the fact that without government intervention in the form of a very powerful fiat, you would not have a job. China is not a free market economy yet, although your mind might be inclined to assume just that.
The experience of most of us is that the better the pay, the higher the demands are, and some of these demands simply are irrational. I mean it is 'irrational' when your customers have the right to pass IELTS or TOEFL exams, or when they fool themselves - and you - into believing that they can buy fluent English from a white face like you in three months or six months, without making their own efforts or even without having had English before!
A lot of jobs are on offer from fly-by-night outfits. Today here, tomorrow gone. Promises are promises, and who keeps them in this country???
What's more, the increase in number of employers puts extra risks on all of us as most of these newbie businesspeople have no clue about legal requirements, not to mention education.
I could apply for a dozen jobs at any given time, and I would probably be hauled into a classroom and be paid 150 to 200 RMB an hour if I only wanted - but I am not interested in dysfunctional classroom settings with "students" from 11 to 47 mixed in one classroom, with adults having a lower attention span than those same eleven-year olds, and yet, all of them have legitimate needs... Yes, I have been to such a class, and I taught them successfully (as successful as was possible under the circumstances) for quite some time. BUt please, please, we are not all interested in this, are we? Some of us want stability and reliability, and why not get both at a decent salary?
Due to the outbreak of SARS, there was a hiring ban for some time, and pay has in some cases been considerably readjusted (upwards, of course). I have, however, noted a tendency these weeks to be more patient and not to hire, nor to advertise. CLearly, some schools are waiting for the insanely increased pay scale to come sliding down as much as possible.
Besides, I hold that for a good teacher in a foreign environment a must have should be a little more than just a Bachelor's, plus he or she should have successfully acquired a second tongue.
In my opinion, most TEFLers can't do a decent teaching job in their home countries. That's why they flock overseas! Many newbie questions reflect what I mean.
I am NOT one of them, - I could easily earn my worth in a Western country. Still, I like it here, and am satisfied with what many consider "low" pay.
It is NOT that low!

[Egas]

I've been looking around for a new job for a couple of months now. When I get an email from a company I just scroll down to the part where they mention the $$$. Boy, am I tired of reading 5000 or so RMB! Maybe I'm just getting greedy, but I think I'm worth more than that. The other annoying thing is that many schools pay an experiened and qualified teacher such as myself the same as a 21 year old backpacker with no qualifications who hasn't tought a day in his life! Where's the logic in that.

[Cobra]

Egas you answered your own question in another post.

Most of the time it is just a matter of filling a void to make a show or glorified babysitting while China warehouses students to keep them off the unemployment rolls.

You fill a space, if you have the face, but know your place!

[struelle]

[kimo]

[Klamm]

Kimo,

I agree with what you say on the traveling being underlooked by employers. Technically, a year or two abroad is supposed to look good on a resume...but, er, that doesn't seem the case often. A year or two abroad certainly won't set you back so much though if it is your destiny to get a "proper" job that is not teaching. You might be a bit behind in the immediate sense, but the experiences and personal growth that comes along with living abroad for an extended period of time for many of us will far outweigh such set-backs over time.

And some would ask...why get a "proper" job? I would. I like teaching, reading, calligraphy, thinking, and watching the birds fly by my window.

(But reality, that creature we call "bills"... )

K.

[Wolf]

[Hamish]

"Braveheat"

Oh yeah.

I saw THAT!

The one where Linda Lovelace does that thing with the...

Regards,

[Wolf]

[Shanluu]

I've sold my condo, and I figure the proceeds will set me up for life in China. I've taken a 4K RMB 16hr/wk university job, but it's primarily an excuse to live in the country. I intend to retire in China, but I didn't see an option for this on the visa application form . You guys had better watch out, because I am the leading edge of a wave of 39 year old pensioners coming your way, and this is going to push those salaries downward!

[kimo]

[travesty21]

haha! I agree with that one kimo. I hope all of the so cal pensioners move to China and not to northern cal and ruin it like the rest of the state. Say Shanluu are you really serious about retiring in China?? Have you lived here before?? I think you are nuts, but I guess thats just me. Living here for 1 to even 10 years I see, but retiring???? Perhaps you should read some more books on China's overall situation before you make the big decision to retire here.

[Wolf]

Yeah. You say you're 40. Let's say you live to be 75.

That's 35 years of putting up with the stuff that we go on about on this forum.





And furthermore



Now, I'm not saying that hoardes of Americans used to that tip top first rate corporate Amercia lifestyle (what with your butter and cheese and cars and traffic rules that get obeyed and other such luxuries) couldn't hack it living in China for a few decades, but surely this is going to be a factor for those legions of millions (and yes I know a legion is only supposed to have 6000 I'm just making a point) of would be retiring USians might want to stop and consider.

China has many wonderful aspects to it, but I wouldn't throw all my eggs in one basket about retiring here unless I felt a lot more comfortable about living here than I currently do.