Job Discussion Forums

[sheeba]

Do you guys ever get this .

Today I must admit I had a bit of an off day . One of the students wrote me a letter because he couldn't speak to me . Turns out he was the monitor of the class (at least I think he was) He wrote that I did not understand the Chinese education and that I was teaching incorrectly . I listened to him and asked him questions . He said to me that they didn't need games and smiling , they were studying for the CET6 and they needed something different .They didn't need primary school words to learn . Some other students at the fromt got on the bandwagon and started saying that I speak too slowly .

I was fuming inside but I kept my cool ,scrapped the lesson we were doing (I was practising it for my DELTA course and to be fair it was a bit grammar orientated ) and turned the lesson into a discussion about what we should be learning . I got some ideas but to be fair only things that I have thought of before and would be doing in time anyway .

The front row possee then preceeded to ask me about my plans for the semester and how I decide them . I answered to them that I try to improve thir oral fluency , use different themes in lessons , lookp at pronunciation and build vocabulary .

I really felt like I was justifying myself to the students . I wrote their ideas . Speak fast , Use words in the CET6 . I explained that they had problems understanding me now so what if I spoke my normal speed .the words from the CET 6 I said I thought were too difficult . I think they need just simple language in class . After all we only use simple language normally in speech .

Should I be defending myself here ? Perhaps the students are right but I sure feel pissed off tonight !

[tw]

CET6 eh? Sounds like you are teaching post-graduates?

Tell the class that if they want Chinese teaching methodology, they can go get a Chinese teacher who would STAND INFRONT OF THEM AND SPEAK FOR TWO HOURS. You are a foreign teacher and you will teach them the way YOU want to teach them because you know what is GOOD FOR THEM. Tell them what they want is not always necessarily the best for their learning. Also, unless your class is a CET 6 preparation class, why should you be held responsible for preparing them for their CET 6?

I had some students like that in Inner Mongolia. These boys went as far as telling me that my lessons were boring. I accepted their terms and conditions and in return, I asked them to try harder. The result: I failed over 20% of the class -- the highest of four classes.

[poopsicola]

Whatever you're doing at the moment and however wise it may be, it doesn't seem to be coming across as relevant to the students' needs. They will be very worried about their performances on the CET6. Maybe you need some massaging of your present approach to do what you know is possible while yet, at the same time, translating itself in their minds as something that is going to deal with their CET6 worries. If you succeed in doing this, there will be no need for justification since practice will be justification enough.

[sheeba]

I see what you're saying about massaging my approach down . I don't think I will be able to justify any approach that focuses on teaching CET6 material but as you say it'd be a good idea at least if they thought that they were progressing towards this goal .

It brings me to problems that we've probably discussed already - individual needs differing in class, different levels in one class , students that really don't know how they should be learning English and an outlook
that baffles me at the best of times .

I am really starting to wonder how much Chinese incapabilities to think logically is affecting them in their acquisition of English .The more I learn about my students the more I realise that they actually have no method's available to them that would aid their learning of English . Then they turn around and accuse the foreigner of having no idea of their education and how to teach English to the specific needs they require.

And what footsteps forward can we possibly hope for . Most don't care and those that do are incapable of accepting that we as FT's have something to offer to these students at a time where English oral pronunciation is of prime importance .

[Songbird]

I think we all have classes similar to this, they expect us FT's to be 'clowns' have 'fun classes' so ultimately they feel they're not doing work. I've been told some of my classes were boring in the past (but let's face it, I was teaching WRITING for heaven's sake!!) but would they improve if I changed some things? Of course not!

And yes, I find you actually DO have to defend yourself and why you are doing things. Again, all the FT's have given up doing something what we would feel is interesting and actually explain before we begin WHY we are about to do a particular activity/ task. Chinese education is 'bland' and usually given as lectures. We need to understand their culture and where they come from, they simply do not understand why we would do some things differently. I've started explaining myself in all my writing classes, it really takes away from the lesson, but it has to be done, can't wait for tomorrow .

[sheeba]

yeah songbird . I agree you do need to explain to students why you are doing something . Helps the teacher too with his aims!

My student today had the opposite attitude to me being the clown as it were . He stressed the importance of spoken English . Perhaps his inabilities to speak English are frustrating him . I'd like to be able to change that around . I'd like to be able to effectively help but am I the only one that feels that the oral classes are somewhat of a waste of time ?
If students could learn techniques to master the language wouldn't we be saving ourself a lot of effort ? I don't mean that they can master English without speaking to foreigners or others in the target language but just a few techniques could push them a long way down the acquisition line . Without these what hopes have they of achieving any aims here . I think some of my students actually believe that I should in 16 weeks of lessons teach them English fluently .

I'll try and shift the responsibility of learning but that really comes down to the individual . I'll see anyway- Just need to keep positive ! Thanks 4 the replies !

[struelle]

Good points brought up here .... yes, constant justification of why you do certain activities is part and parcel of the deal. I wish it weren't so, but I can't see a way around it.

What really bugs me is when I anticipate problems in advance, and work around them, based on past experience. Then I end up with the exact problems I'm trying to pre-empt.

In my past Physics classes I got lots of feedback in the past that I should write clearer and bigger notes on the board, make a left-right progression, and do more examples. So, done deal, and I've more or less ingrained that in my lessons. But today one student says, "I can't read your notes well, and can you do more examples?"

Meanwhile, on the board was a detailed, step by step list of how to plot data and do graphs, with an example right beside it. How could that not be clear? The problem was that I didn't have a title for the lesson, which sounds trivial, but without me telling them to write down the title, it was lost on more than one.

I think what's going on here is that most students are really poor at following instructions, and they expect the teacher to do everything for them and hold them by the hand.

Let's look at how to take notes. You come into class with a binder, writing materials, calculator (for the sciences), ruler, and other essentials. Then you open the binder to the latest blank page and begin fresh notes, beginning with a date and title for the lesson. As class goes on, you follow what's on the board plus other things the teacher says which are relevant. A good lecture will generate 1-2 pages of neat notes. The lecture may not be perfect, but you can fill in the gaps if you're following along.

This is pretty much a no brainer, but if I'm lucky, my kids can do 50% of the above and it requires constant reminders. I must say things like, "Open your binder to a new page and write this title down." Then walk around to make sure they do it. If I get tired of saying and repeating all this, I let it slip and that can cost me a whole lesson!

What I want to do is spend at least a couple classes on how to take effective notes, and how to study from them. Already I can see a huge problem of students forgetting what was taught, even if just last week! Taking notes isn't a chore, it's an extremely powerful tool for review. This applies to pretty much any cumulative-based course.

Note taking is more or less a science in itself, and you'd think that Chinese students would be good at it! If we go by the belief that they are good or even 'better' at the sciences, it is a huge mystery to find out that they struggle with ridiculously simple logic like taking notes and following instructions.

On that note, a huge number of students admitted to finding Physics difficult and struggling the most with the problem solving parts. The main reason? It's too logical, possibly involves too much thinking.

I know I'm an expert in this area and am slowly regaining my role in that. And with that, I'm not buying into the myth that Chinese are somehow better at the sciences because they aren't. I don't know how they teach it in their middle schools, but I'm baffled by the stuff I'm seeing.

Most of the kids I teach plan to go overseas and study in Western universities so I can be a little harsher than usual on making sure they learn some skills that will keep them afloat once they get out China.

Steve

[Outsida]

No, do not defend yourself. You start trying to justify everything you do, and pretty soon they'll be in control of the class, because it's a short jump from asking why to vetoing it en masse.

I understand the CET thing. Most semesters, I'm faced with students who feel that my class room is the ideal place to review for it. I understand now that often they feel they can do better in independent study in a kind of structured classroom environment, surrounded by classmates and a teacher, than in their dorms. The problem for me is that such an attitude spreads until 90% of them are buried in their vocab books, ignoring my class. I can't let that happen. And like it or not, the CET doesn't bear much resemblance to Oral English. It's difficult to build their conversational abilities and yet teach to the test. Writing and reading and listening to specialised monologues is pretty well-removed from the task of making everyday conversation.

YOU know what's best. Whatever you change, they'll soon be complaining about that, too. Speak slowly, build vocab, help with their pronunciation. Hell, if they're frustrated about speaking with you, teach them stuff that they might have occasion to use with you. Examples include: "Teacher, why did you fail me?" or "Teacher, my father will kill me if I fail your class. May I interest you in a free lunch?"

And remember this: They don't know what they want, but they know that what you are giving them is not what they want.

[Mydnight]

1. Tell them to sit down and shut up. You are the teacher and they are the students. Sucks but sometimes you have to do it.

After you do that, you explain to them that this is NOT a CET-6 training course and this is ORAL ENGLISH CLASS. Then tell them that the purpose for your class is to get them to improve their ORAL fluency and you do that by MAKING THEM SPEAK MORE...NOT YOU!

Teaching methods? Let me guess, you have like 50 kids (second years?) in one class, ya? Explain that your ability to do much is limited because of the class size. When they go against that, you say that the administration in the UNI is not your responsibility.

Sounds to me just like another brat-pack of kids that thinks the wai jiao can perform some kind of miracle. Don't let it get you down too much. During my time here, I've gotten all the same complaints that you've talked about here. Before, I've been called boring and wonderful, in that sequence, by the same person in the same class period.

My recent batch of students I was teaching in a center said I never prepared my lessons, which I actually did. I had every possible situation against me for those classes. Three different classes in 2 hours; first for 20 min, second and third for 40 min; once a week. Each class was supposed to be divided from level 1 to level 3 but of course each class had a huge variety of levels. On top of that, the teachers didn't like me either. It basically came down to if I did something to easy, the more advanced people complained and if it was too hard, the lower levels complained.

What's a guy to do with a situation like that? The most complaint came from the first level class that was only for 20 minutes...and what exactly am I supposed to prepare for 20 minutes once a week?

A student/cronie-of-the-center said this to me:

"If you keep the students happy, it is ok". Meaning, I should clown around more. They got a new, young teacher to stare at so they are happy now apparently. Students in China are very fickle. Like I said, don't let it get you down.

[Leon Purvis]

This may or may not be relevant to your situation.

I had a similar situation in which I was teaching a group of students whose previous foreign English teacher was quite charismatic and popular. Unfortunately, he was an idiot who often took discussions away from the intended class subject and indoctrinated his classes into his own weird view of the world.

He also had a penchant for trashing his fellow foreign teachers and for talking about his personal problems which invariably included feelings of persecution.

After his contract was NOT renewed and he left for another school, I learned that he stayed in contact with several his former students. The most vocal dissident students in my class came from those with whom he had continued email correspondence.

Your teaching methodology may have nothing to do with their dissatisfaction. You may need to seek out a student with whom you have an amicable relationship, and over the course of a couple of lunches ask him questions regarding the students' satisfaction. Ask how their previous teacher taught them. Try to find out if anyone is in contact with former teachers who may have left or who may still be on campus. (Be very diplomatic about this because if anyone is, the problems may escalate).

[Steppenwolf]

[Shan-Shan]

As previous, sagacious posters have already written, these students do not understand the basics of language acquisition (and neither should they be expected to -- they are the students, we are the teachers). Listen to their ideas, but always juxtapose what the students say with an informed opinion on how languages are learned. More often than not, students' opinions do not jive with current methodology.

Just being handsome and bragging about one's abilities through endless story times will not increase language competence among the students. Sure, many might be "amused"; but amusement does not necessarily translate into language competence. I've had the same experience: "my previous American teacher was cool -- he sat on the desk and told us jokes every day. Why are you standing when you speak?" How can one live up to that!?

Funny how we are often asked to teach, and not to teach. If only it could as easy the Chinese English teachers have it: stand behind the podium, mumble on and on, and get payed after all the students have prepared and passed the exam by ignoring you and memorizing vocabulary on their own. Such is the lotus-land Chinese English teachers inhabit.

[Outsida]

Yes. Living up to the previous teacher can be a problem. My colleague is an older gentleman who is very fond of movies, stories and taking his pet to class. This combination provides a wonderful experience for the students and the classes are like a meeting of old friends.

Unfortunately, when others like me come along and actually expect them to work without the benefit of watching movies or playing with an animal, they become sulky, resentful and unco-operative. Especially when it's obvious that their English is not up to scratch and needs serious work.

[tw]

Is it just me, or are there many of you who prefer teaching FIRST-YEAR students during their first term? I know I do! Sure, some of them might have had a FT in middle school, but I doubt most of them had met a FT while they were in highschool.

Some excellent points, observations, and suggestions. Sheeba, I have no doubt in your teaching ability and I know you are a very experienced China teacher. If there is anything you might consider modifying in your lessons, you might want to consider how you deliver your lesson introductions to get students interested in what you are about to do/teach.

I can relate a lot to what Outsida, Shan-Shan, and Mydnight have said. I have four classes of Oral English with second-year three-year college English majors this term (another two classes with first-year students starting next week). Classes one and two had two different foreign teachers during their first year and classes three and four had one. Classes three and four couldn't really tell me if they liked their last foreign teacher or his lessons or not, and they don't remember what they'd learned in the last year. They do remember two things: games and watching DVD. With classes one and two, it was worse. They REALLY liked the second teacher because she was young, beautiful, and "sexy" (according to a girl). Other than that, they didn't seem to do a heck of a lot in her classes either other than "childlish games", singing songs, and (ahem) watching DVD's. As for their first FT (who still teaches here), they didn't like him at all because his lessons were "boring", consisting of mainly having students sitting in a huge circle and "discussing" topics. I was later told by another FT who has been here a year that it was actually more of the FT speaking non-stop for two hours than having his students speak. So, I am their second/third FT and probably the first one who REALLY wants to help them improve their oral English fluency. But I find myself in an extremely difficult situation because first, I don't know what games and activities the other FT's had played and done before and even more importantly, I sense these students are expecting me to continue the trend of just playing games, singing songs, and watching DVD's. For those students in classes one and two, they might even hate oral English classes because my colleague didn't try to put any efforts into his lessons to stir up the students' interest. So it feels like I have to go in to clean up the mess other FT's had made.

What is also interesting is that when I asked the students if they really wanted to improve their English, I got unanimous "YES" answers. However, when I asked if they were weilling to work hard and put in a lot of effort, it was dead silence.

One final note, a FT and myself had a chat with the dean of the College of Foreign Languages. When I mentioned that the students seemed a bit "quiet", she had the nerve to suggest that maybe I should change my lessons to make them more "suitable" for the students' level! I told her I could do that -- if she places them in different classes according to their English ability. Yeah sure, like I am going to have 120 lesson plans!

[no_exit]

I haven't read through all of the responses yet, but it seems to me that your problem is pretty common. I too had a college level class tell me they "didn't like" my class. They felt it was "boring." They wanted more "oral English." They wanted to pass the TEM4, and on and on.

As someone else pointed out, your students may think they know what they want, but when it comes down to it, if they all knew the best way to learn a foreign language, then they wouldn't need a teacher, would they? You'd just be there to refine their pronounciation and they could learn the material entirely on their own.

However, the students aren't teachers, and they don't always know what's best for them. You have to reassure your students that you know what you're doing, and that while their input is welcome, they ultimately have to trust you to teach them the material. Would they ever question one of their Chinese teachers' teaching ability? Of course not. So I feel like it is important for you to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that you're the teacher, you know what is best for your students, and it is up to you to figure out what they need, as opposed to what they want.

That said, take note of their suggestions, and reassure them that you'll make sure their needs are being met. Although preparing for this test might be very important to them, they have Chinese taught classes geared specifically towards preparing them for the test, and if your class is an oral English class, then CET6 prep doesn't have to be part of your curriculum. In fact, their Chinese teachers can probably prepare them better for the CET6 than you can anyhow, so if it doesn't fit into your curriculum, don't sweat it. They are going to be nervous about the test, but suggest to them that not all English learning has to be geared around test performance, and suggest to them that you're giving them an opportunity to use English as a real language, not simply as a test subject.

Anyhow, good luck. It sucks to have students complain, and I always feel bad as a teacher when it happens. Just try not to let it get to you too much, and remember that students almost NEVER know what they want in a class, and often will complain when they can't see tangible progress (like test scores) with their studies. That doesn't mean they're not learning anything, and it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong either!