Job Discussion Forums

[NathanRahl]

Hello all,
I am into my second week of teaching in china, and for the most par it is going well now.

However, I have two problem classes, both Senior 2. What I mean by bad is the usual, smart remarks, to much loud talking, not participating. Now 2 Bad classes out of 17 is not so bad, but I want them all to be good.

However, I am having a hard time motivating these two classes. Making the transition from american classrooms to chinese has been difficult. I am getting along a little better now. new assistant who listens, all that jazz. It's just these two classes hich, for two weeks, have been a real headache.

I am thinking that the answer lies in talking with their "chinese" teachers. Turns out students over here seem to be more scared of their teachers then they are their parents. Likely if I speak to them these two classes will be a little, or a lot more orderly. I want them to be able to have fun, but you can't have zero order.

I am also thinking letting them get to know me better will help. This proves hard however, since the students here are so shy. Even asking them if they have questions about you or america elicits no response. I still don't understand the shyness.

Anyhow, if anyone else on here has had problems with a class or two, please, let me know, so I don't feel so alone. I'm well aware I am not in Kansas anymore, believe me, and maybe I am not being realistic expecting all my classes to be great. I don't think I should ignore the bad behavior, something they would never try in any other class, and I want to dismiss them of the belief that this clas is someho a study period.

I honestly think that this class should be graded like every other, and that doing poorly in it should have a penalty, just like any others class doe's, meaning you fail.

Now I'm sure I will get many a reply from ESL teachers who will say they never had a hard class, or difficult students, patting themselves on the back and what not, don't want to here from you. If you have had difficult students, then I wanna hear about it. Yeah, there are a lot of obnoxious people on here waiting to pounce on anyone here who shows a sign of weakness or self recrimination. Or who want to make themselves feel better by exalting themselves and casting dispersions at you, too many trolls here. I have seen it too many times, and you know who you are. Try and ignore them, and tell me about your hard times, helps we can communicate without fear of being attacked or put down, and can learn from one anothers mistakes. Thanks, and take care.

[klaus]

maybe they don't care enough about you or america to want ask you questions about those things. i certainly don't and i am a fairly inquisitive adult so why you would expect a 16 or 17 year old stuck in a classroom against his will to is beyond me.

what would them asking questions about those things have to do with you doing your job anyway?

i'll tell you something else for nothing too - the nature of the student-teacher relationship that you are accustomed to is not universal. part of the social role of teachers here is that of what is often translated as "a friend" to students.

if you hang around, you'll learn a lot and along the way maybe you'll develop a bit of cultural sensitivity and modify your chauvinistic expectations accordingly - and maybe even learn a few china specific classroom management techniques. also - given that you do stay - once you realise that for all your bluster you really haven't got a clue how to teach english, you might start making some progress in that regard too.

i'm calling that you'll be gone after a semester though. if that.

and as for the pot calling the kettle obnoxious....

[poopsicola]

Well, Klaus would certainly know all about not being able to hack China and leaving. Do tell all, Klaus, so that the poor OP can understand through your experience.

OP, you may not know it but there is only one person who knows anything about teaching anything anywhere and that is the quite amazing Klaus.

He is truly a wonder. Of course, he's not much good with people and that's a bit sad. He's presently unemployed.

[cj750]

You cant shut these little buggers up about the good ole USA

[/quote]what would them asking questions about those things have to do with you doing your job anyway[quote]

again are you kidding..classrooms are full of the curious..job, wife, dog, what ever it is, in the most minute detail gets examined and re examined over and over...

[NathanRahl]

Thanks Claus for the advice, and next time I see you in my classroom I will be sure to then pay it heed, since then you will actually know how I teach. Tell me Claus, how do "you" teach English, I am simply dying to know, you seem to have all the answers? Your so very kind, thank you for the feedback, do take care

[GS1981]

Just my 2p...

This is something I'm a bit concerned about, as it is difficult to deal with in single-language classes IMHO

well there is the british council advice (which you have probably already seen) here

Otherwise, I find song and dance warmers tend to be quite good with getting students to 'come out of themsleves' I have taught some all-chinese classes before in England and I know it can be a bit like getting blood from a stone!

However, I find once you get them to do something a bit silly, especially if you lead an activity like that, it can be really great for getting students to relaz: after all, if they can do a silly dance with the rest of the class, it should be no problem to speak english, right?

Also have you done many 'getting to know you activities'? one great one is to get every student to name their favourite topic, then the other students have to think of one question to ask that student. Then they ask follow up questions. You can cycle them round so that they get to talk to everyone and it's good fluency practise as everybody is talking about something they know about. If you're really desperate to build a rapport, maybe try getting involved in the activity as well, although this will make it impossible to monitor effectively.

Also, my classes have been a maximum size of 20, as opposed to the 40-50 I hear is common in China, so I'm not sure how that might complicate things.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and good luck!

klaus- would love to hear about your experiences: what are good 'China-specific classroom management techniques'?

[danswayne]

I teach college level so it is a little different, but I used to think I could be doing a lot better as a teacher until I stuck my head in some Chinese teachers classes and saw the total lack of respect the students had for the teacher. Newspapers up in plain view, MP3's out being listened to, and talking like the teacher was not even there. This was just a couple of teachers that I checked on and what I see now is almost the exact opposite in the school I teach in now. From past experiences you might have to be quite a bit stricter with these two classes at first and let the friend role happen later. It is much easier to go in that direction than it is to try to get your student friends to respect you as a teacher after they see you as equal to them, which is what a friend would be.

[NathanRahl]

Oh I agree, and I have lain down the law in these two classes. it doe's not help that they are near the end of the week, the second being next to last class on Friday. I swear, these chinese kids really need more fat and protein in their diet's they are dead on their feet.

Anyhow, yes, getting to know them is something I plan on doing. There was supposed to be an englihs corner in the first week, but my deffective assistant, who schedules these thing's, is supposed to anyhow, did not. Also, these children are very shy. This is a very rural area, city kids are not quite as shy, these are way too shy. basically it is hard to get them to open up.

As for sing alongs, sorry, I will have education based games, laugh with them, but there won't be sing alongs in my class, I am just not the type for it.

Those two classes, being english two, I have only had them once each up until now, not 4 times so far like my english one students, they will figure it out hopefully. I suppose I am doing something right, 15 out of 17 is not bad, however I feel they all can be good. It is mainly hard though because they mess up's in the class, the main trouble makers, juast don't seem to care, and, beyond being loud, or imposing, it is kinda hard when you have little leverage. However I think if I report them to their chinese english teacher, they will wise up. Also, I think they ill come around once the lessons get more interesting. Again, my assistant, had to change the lesson plan I made up, at the last minute, because she had misinformed me as to which parts I was actually supposed to teach. She's gone, thankfully.

As to how many students, my classes average 60, some a little more, so as you can see, this can ad to the difficulty of keeping at least somem order, but I have done well in doing so, except with these two classes. I would love to have 20, but I don't find 60 to be too much of a problem.

They treat the teachers here much differently. Your experience seeing teachers being treated badly was a rare one. Most stuents fear their teachers more then their parents. Your experience was the exception, not the rule. Trust me, at my school, the teachers will rip the students a new one if they give them a hard time. I don't want my students to fear me, but a healthy helping of respect bordering on it would not hurt at first, instead of the expectation that it will all be one big game.

[danswayne]

[NathanRahl]

Hmm, well I have no cd player or MP3, I like music, but don't listen to it much honestly. Might be fun for them, but it would just reinforce the lack of seriousness for which they take the class. Let's face it, while the chinese children go to school for longer in a day then American kids do, their education is not as good. That's just the old quantity over quality adage, I prefer quality over quantity. America has some of the best schools in the world, and, while the public schools there could do better, i.e. focus on the question more then just giving the student the answer, it's still one of the better one's in the world. Everyone knitpicks he who is on the top of the heap, he's the most visible after all, easier to see whatn he's doing wrong. However, let's face it, America is not at the top of the heap for nothing. China would do well to westernize their teaching methods more, the results are as plain as the nose on one's face when you look at the USA.

Sorry all, yell at me all you want you cynics, but I love my country, and the hard working teachers in it

[Shan-Shan]

Myself personally, I could not undermine my musical ethics by playing anything my students enjoy listening to (that is, Britney, Celine and boy bands). I did, however, do a musical lesson once with a group of 25 year olds. The music I played -- Brian Eno -- caused them to all "feel scared and lonely".

Though the exposure might have been terrifying, I am still happy for having allowed something other than western spittle to enter their ears.

[GS1981]

well, songs in class don't necessarily need to be like clasroom 'Pop Idol', something closer to a chanted rhyme can work as well. Activities (discussion, etc.) with songs by 'Coldplay' which I enjoy have had pretty good results. Still, I agree with Shan-shan, not playing Britney or *insert name of current manufactured trash-pop here*. I find it distressing enough that many students love that [censored].

Nathan, what ages are in your class?

[winterlynx1]

You won't find this in any 'teacher improvement' books, but sometimes flying into a total rage will bring these kind of classes under control - speaking from experience. I premediated, planned and well executed rage at the front of the classroom can transform a class. I'm sure some people will object to this advice because it's 'not nice to do' - but I've seen this particular politically-incorrect tactic work with an unruly class.

[latefordinner]

I'm the last one to give advice on middle school and senior middle school. Teenage wasteland has been the hardest place for me to teach. (Possibly because I spent so much of my life there)
While I can't agree with winterlynx1's method as stated, I have found one thing similar that has worked. Let them know that you have standards, and let them know as firmly and decisively as you can that their behaviour does not meet your standards. If that means doing something no other teacher would dare, then do it. In my case, I told them that I wasn't wasting any more of my time on them that day, and left the classroom. Shock and awe can be useful if you know what you're doing, as opposed to simply acting out your frustrations. That depends on having a plan to follow up.
I wouldn't do this at an elementary school, but at middle school they're old enough to start earning a little respect and to deal with some of the consequences of their misbehaviour.

[grwit]