Job Discussion Forums

[chinahopeful]

Hi everyone. I would really like to teach in China, I think most likely in Xi'an. I won't be done my current job until Christmas, so would like to go to China in January. I have an Honours BA and a Masters, both in English, and well as my BEd and a year of teaching experience. Does anybody have any advice on how to find a job, how to make sure the school is reputable, and how much I should ask to get paid? I would really like to have a positive experience, and it seems so hard to find a decent school. Will I be able to find a job with a January start date? I'm not picky about the age/grade level of the students I teach. Thanks in advance for all of your help!

[Sinobear]

Make sure your resume states TWO years of teaching to make the visa requirements.

Cheers!

[Shan-Shan]

It's a risk. There is no Central Committee on Good Schools which you can visit to discover which institutions are best avoided. You just best follow your senses.

But if all turns out rotten, Korea is not far away. With your educational background, you could earn at least quadruple there working for a university.

[Gregor]

I know that I'm just ASKING for flame, but I'd suggest that you get in touch with the language mills - EF English First is the one I'm familiar with, but Aston Schools is also in China, as is Wall Street.
Look at Dave's job board, take what sounds good, and submit your paperwork. Chances are, if you're a pretty chill individual without huge expectations, you'll find a job that fits the bill.
You know Dave's, obviously. Here are a couple other web sites to look at:
http://www.tefl.com/
http://www.englishfirst.com/trt/country_cn.html
That second one is obviously for English First. Now, some of their schools have a bad reputation. Sometimes it's a disgruntled former teacher who was unreasonable; sometimes it's a legitimate concern. I have never had a bad experience with EF, and I've worked in four of their schools, two in China, one in Indonesia and one in Vietnam.
The school in Dalian, Liaoning, China is under new management and I've heard bad about that. It was OK when I was there, and the DoS there is VERY good, so it might be fine for the teachers.
The other EF in China that I knew was in Shenyang, and that one hasn't changed; in fact, I'm returning to it soon (but not as the DoS). I can recommend that one. I've also heard good things about their schools in Harbin and Wuhan.
So, if you apply to EF, you can tell them you want to go to one of those schools and hope for the best. But if you're an experienced expat, you can probably make the best of whatever you get, and are probably savvy enough to make a thumbnail judgement about your contact from the email exchange.
Also - if you want to contact an individual school (they don't have to recruit from the head office, and as that service costs a lot of money, they prefer not to), you can go to this site:
http://www.englishfirst.com.cn/englishfirst/schools/schoolname/default.aspx
Here, you can select a city and find contact information for the school of your choice. You can apply to them specifically and skip the middle man, if you like.
And there's my advice.

[wailing_imam]

Try asiaxpat.com better range of jobs than here, but based more in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou.

Also, research what cities you'd like to live in. Some are wonderful and some are utter shiteholes.

Good ones; Suzhou, Hangzhou, Xiamen

[chinahopeful]

Thanks for all of the information everyone. I really appreciate your replies. I have heard bad things about EF and the other McEnglish schools, but I will definetly look into them. I am really interested in Xi'an. Does anyone have any experience working there or any comments about the location. I have spent a bit of time in Beijing and Hong Kong in university. Is Xi'an any more polluted than Beijing? I'm really attracted to the history and like the central location for travel opportunities. I know it will be cold, but I'd like a totally different experience than the one I had in Hong Kong (which I love, but I'd like to see more traditional China). I'm also wondering, with my qualifications should I be looking into university positions? I know I could make more $ in other countries, but I'm coming to China because I am interested in learning more about the culture and traveling in Asia. I don't necessarily want to make a huge salary, but I need to make enough to live on and pay some school debts.

[Steppenwolf]

If you are suitably experienced and qualified you might try a public institution; Xi'an is a major education centre in China with a number of relatively good tertiary schools.
Xi'an definitely is an interesting place to live; also the climate is more acceptable to many than the humid weather of coastal provinces. It gets fairly hot but not sweltering, while winters are cold as in temperate zone countries.

[chinahopeful]

What exactly is the difference between a public and a private institution? Would I be teaching in a different manner to very different students if I picked one over the other, or is it strictly a financial difference? How exactly should I look for and find a reputible school in Xi'an?

[WordUp]

"Private schools depend solely on their recruiting numbers and private investment to survive. Usually one person is in charge of recruiting. If that person is not competent at their job and recruiting numbers fall, the first thing to suffer is teachers salaries being paid in a timely fashion.. The next level of failure usually results in the school insisting that the foreign teacher pay for utilities and other amenities usually provisioned for in the contract. Most private schools have difficulty obtaining the legal permission required to host foreign teachers so it isn't surprising that most problems associated with visas are associated with teachers working in private schools. With all these considerations, it should also be noted that there are a number of private schools that operate just fine without incident. Public Schools are usually well funded by the local government and have the guanxi (relationships) to obtain legal working permissions for foreign teachers.. "

[chengdude]

If Xi'an is at the top your list, try the TEFLChina newsgroup on Yahoo Groups or even Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree NE Asia forum; there's quite a helpful teacher in Xi'an who often posts to both.

[Steppenwolf]

Well, some FTs do not state their intentions clearly enough; teaching at a TRAINING CENTRE a.k.a. language mill, passes for them as teaching at a school.
But let's not confuse the two: a training centre is a BUSINESS where you essentially please paying clients whose ideas of what is and what is not learning good English may vary from the extravagant to the extroverted.
It usually means they dictate to you what the teacher has to do. The owner of the enterprise sees the money and won't stop "students" from bullyhing you.
Not that all students are bad apples; you get some truly dedicated and motivated ones. That is specially true when they are self-paying students; the majuority these days are not, however, self-paying ones - their employers pay for them, or the training centre farms you out to a paying institution such as a PUBLIC school which in turn has not been approved to hire its own FTs. They circumvent the regulations by going the road to the training centres...they do so when the parents of their students demand extracurricular English classes.

As for PUBLIC schools, these are schools run for the Chinese public and are compulsory; English has been made a compulsory subject so there is a syllabus to follow (very much in contrast with what's happening at language mills where you teach a randomly selected textbook).

Of course, employment conditions also vary greatly. Public schools take you on board for an academic yeark, beginning in September and ending in June or July; you get paid statutory holidays of several weeks (spring festival, October holidays, May First holiday). Private employers give you fewer holidays off though they also remunerate you more generously (in general, not always).

And here is a secondary consideration: public schools usually hire you on a resident's permit sticker in your passport while private employers still often providce only an 'F' visa and a separate resident's booklet (I know this to be the case from working for one such a private empoloyer whose fulltime foreign staff all had 'F' visas and no resident permit stickers in their passports but holding a separate resident's booklet).
In theory this may mean very little for you, but in practice I suppose the difference is this: 'F' visa holders may not qualify to get a Foreign Expert's Certificate which allows them to convert RMB into a foreign currency at the BoC.

[Ariadne]

Try for a university position. An apartment is usually provided and they help you with the necessary visa/resident permit/foreign expert cert/
medical, etc. although they might not pay for all of it. Hours are usually less than 20 a week (in class). Google Xi'an universities or something like that. Buxiban has a list of schools, you can get some names and then check to see if they have websites. The second term will begin the end of February or first part of March, so if you have to start working in January, a university might not work for you. You can also sift through old ads on Dave's or other sites to get some names of schools. The ads will give you lots of info about various salaries, benefits, and requirements. Pick some schools and send some applications even if they aren't advertising at the moment.

I was only in Xi'an for a few days but I really liked it and the food was great. Pollution is a problem there, as it is in so many cities. Maybe if your school is out of town a ways it might not be too bad... but I really
don't know.

.

[chinahopeful]

I think I am going to be coming at a bad time to find a job. I have found very few job postings in Xi'an, and most seem to be McEnglish type facilities such as EF and KidsCastle. I'll take one of those if I can't find something else, but I'd rather find a teaching job that uses my crudentials more effectively. Has anyone heard of Jahoo International School, good or bad?