Job Discussion Forums

[thelmadatter]

What do you do on the worst days of culture shock. You are (physically) sick. You are (physically) tired. You are sick and tired of everything -- and still have to be a work. I locked myself in my office today and as ashamed as I am to admit this ( I am gringo after all) I broke down and cried.

Ive been told this happens but it sure doesnt feel "normal"

[seriouslydog]

Hey thelmadatter,

I leave for Mexico in less than two weeks now and culture shock is a big concern for me. I'm very interested in Mexico, the culture and the language, its history, but I also know that it is going to take some major adjusting too. Maybe it's a good thing, it means you're adjusting, you get through this and things are sure to be easier. I've read some pretty interesting articles on culture shock and from what I've read everyone goes through it at some level.

What would really be helpful, is if maybe you could tell some of us newbies about it. What can I expect? What are some of the things I'm going to feel?

all the best

seriously,

dog

[Lee_Marrero]

I had my breakdown days too!!! It is actually a combination of things that will make you lose it. In Mexico they include: persistent, annoying vendors, persistent annoying taxi drivers, stress from worrying about food quality (ie does this taco have typhoid), Mexican laziness (flojera) repetitive classes etc. There is a high burnout rate in la republica. For me it was caused partly by being required to cover classes for ever ship-jumping teachers. at one point I was working 7 classes a day and 1 4 hour class on Saturday. I wasnt required to do it I just felt bad for the students. I found that it is helpful when the school allows a level of creative input from the teacher this makes for me enjoyable tailored classes that are smoother and hence less stressful.

[Ben Round de Bloc]

After living in Mexico for 8 years, I find that I still get irritated and upset about some things but not nearly as much as I did when living and working in the USA. Also, I find that I get over it much more quickly here. I suspect that's because I find life and my job to be so much less stressful here. So many things that would've driven me right up the wall in the States don't really bother me that much in Mexico.

I think it's important to become informed about the phases of culture shock before moving here. Not that this will prevent a person from experiencing culture shock, but I think it somehow makes culture shock easier to deal with. At least a person knows that what he's feeling isn't abnormal.

One of my biggest problems was learning how to say no and mean it. It seems to me that Mexicans are especially prone to asking a lot of others. If a person agrees to do something once, it's taken for granted that he'll continue to do it and be asked to do more. Mexicans cope with similar situations by responding either with, "I'll do it ma�ana," or by agreeing to do something but then not doing it. As foreigners wanting to fit in and be accepted, I think we often tend to over-extend ourselves, which can add stress and lead to exhaustion.

A person also has to keep in mind that lots of things that are accepted as true, correct, or right in his own culture may not be viewed in the same light in Mexico. That doesn't necessarily mean that a person has to change his own values and ethics. However, it helps a lot if one realizes that the same values and ethics that are common in his own culture may not be common in Mexican culture or at least may not be adhered to as strongly. Regarding cultural aspects, it's not so much a matter of something of one culture being right and something of another culture being wrong but just that they're different.

[dduck]

As Mr Rant-Master I can offer the following advice: I find TV is good for numbing the mind, if you're feeling low find something fun to watch on TV. Eating and sleeping does wonders for making you feel better. And as Tim suggests don't let other people take control of your life. Being nice 100% of the time is very exhausting, learn to be assertive, or in my case just plain nasty! Grrrrrr! And finally, I find teaching improves my mood no end. Just as well

You've taken the first positive step, that is, by talking about it.

Iain

[some waygug-in]

Nothing to be ashamed of. We all find moving to a foreign country stressful at times. For me, the thing that helped the most was having a lot of foreigner friends who were going through the same things or similar things as me.
I know you may have been told that the worst thing you can do is sit around with a bunch of whiny ex-pats and complain, but there is a time and a place for everything. Sometimes it is helpful to sit and compare notes with fellow sufferers. My first job in Mexico, I was quite lucky to work with a great bunch of teachers who, for the most part, were really quite interesting people. We really didn't have a lot in common except that suddenly, we were all pons in the same game, and we all had similar feelings regarding our new "slave Lord". I made some of the best friends I'll ever have that year.
I'm not saying you won't meet some wackos, there were a few of them too. But mostly, the other teachers seemed quite willing to help each other out.

I don't know where you are in Mexico, perhaps in DF, this would not be so easy.

I really don't think I experienced true culture shock in Mexico. I was too involved in exploring what was around me. I loved to go for long walks, checking out different neighborhoods, checking out the little stores and shops around. But then, I lived in Queretaro and safety was not a concern. In Mexico, it wasn't the culture that I found difficult, it was the lack of money.


In Korea, I found out what culture shock was all about. I don't know if I really have gotten over it yet. (I've been here 2 years) There are still those days when I tear my hair out and ask "WTF am I doing here?"

Having a hobby helps. Reading books helps. But nothing is better than having some friends you can talk to.

I hope this helps
cheers

[dduck]

[desultude]

It amazes me how different people experience things differently. Sorry, waygug, but I have been just fine in Korea. It must depend on the person, and also the job and peer group. I suspect age has something to do with it also, and life experience.

Please don't misunderstand- I do not want to live in Korea for the rest of my I guess for me feeling "at home" is not my goal at the moment, and life. I read on the Korea forum posts all of the time from people that are so unhappy here. But it is not the universal experience. I haven't heard any of my colleagues saying the sort of things I read there. Maybe its Seoul? I do like the city, but then I don't live there. I also love D.F., so maybe I am just a bit strange (well, I guess I am acually).

If I really hated a place I would leave, if at all possible. But there are things that keep people here, millions of them, in the paycheck every month.

Seriously, waygug, you are so right about having friends to thrash it out with. But there is one guy in my program that is so negative about everything (weirdly, not about Korea, but about the program and other teachers and life in general). I found that he brought me down all of the time, so I avoid him whenever possible. I find that choosing who you hang with is key to how you are feeling about a place.

[some waygug-in]

What do I find stressful about Korea?
Well, for starters the language.

I Have been working, studying, listening, practicing and trying desparately to learn Korean, but I'm still at a very basic level. Sure, I can go buy a can of pop, I have enough vocabulary for that, but if anything unusual happens (like having to order heating oil) I am totally helpless. I have to get my boss to do it for me or someone else who I can trust. This in itself is probably the most stressful thing about Korea.

The culture is somewhat of a downer compared to Mexico. I don't find it very interesting, maybe that would change if I understood more Korean. Un-like Mexicans, Koreans are not into bright colors and interesting architecture. Korean music makes me want to vomit. I wish they would try and develop their own cultural music, instead of trying to clone American R&B, hip- hop or Euro-pop.
I find it way too Americanized or Euro-ized (whatever) They seem obsessed with copying everyone else, but not very able to make their own cultural contributions. (maybe somewhat similar to Canada in that respect)
The other things are, the crowds, the humidity, the smell, and then of course, the downright stupidity. Koreans seem very concerned about doing all kinds of useless things that accomplish nothing.
Koreans erroneously think that they have no body odor yeah right!
Especially in August, you get a noseful of that "sour" Korean smell.

They say they want to learn English, but they complain about any teacher who trys to teach them anything. They seem content to "attend" conversation classes and pretend they are learning something. They refuse to study anything remotely related to grammar, even though that is the very thing they need the most. They get angry if a teacher corrects their bad English in front of other students. They expect the teacher to "entertain" them and think that somehow this is going to teach them English.

Then there is the staring, I sometimes feel like I am on another planet, the way they stare at me. Then there are the kids poking me in the butt, calling me stupid, fat, ugly and whatever else they feel like. (in class)

Then there is the director who says that I shouldn't try and discipline the students, (for any reason) and who wants me to write out these ridiculous reports about how wonderful little "su young" is. (eventhough she won't even take out her books in class and usually gives me the finger when I try to get her to do something).
Then the director is complaining that I don't do enough book work with the kids, so she tells me that I no longer can have any games in class!

Then there's the whole business about having to leave the country to get a work visa? The hassles of finding and employer you can trust, the constant worry about whether or not the boss is going to screw me over.
And worst of all, the difficulty one faces if you decide that you want to change jobs.
The Koreans seem to think that people should keep working, even if they are dying of the flu or whatever ailment you might contract. They say you get 3 sick days, but just try and take one: see what happens.

Of course it's not always like that, I've just listed all the bad things together, so it looks worse than it really is. There are good things and good students too.

The good things are, the money (I've saved about $10,000 Can. this year).
Free housing for a lot of jobs, sometimes shared apartments where you will have to pay rent, (still very cheap)
Decent banking services,(no problem wiring money home from here)
A good, reliable postal service. (something Mexico could really use)
good and cheap public transportation. Affordable medical services. (Even if you don't have health insurance, it's not a big deal because medical services are fairly cheap)

Then there's the vacation days, Gee whizz! I've gotten a whole 2 this year!
Whooooo doggy!!!!!!!!!! What will I do with all that free time?
I did mangage to spend an afternoon on the beach with my girlfriend. It was noisy and crowded and dirty, but at least it was a beach.

I have to admit that financially speaking, I am doing really great, but I feel like my soul is being slowly sucked into the cracks in the sidewalk between all the characterless, colorless, monolithic buildings. The song
"soul cages" by Sting seems to best describe the Korean urban expanse.


Anyway, I hope this gives you some idea about the place.
Cheers

[thelmadatter]

One of my biggest problems was learning how to say no and mean it. It seems to me that Mexicans are especially prone to asking a lot of others. If a person agrees to do something once, it's taken for granted that he'll continue to do it and be asked to do more. Mexicans cope with similar situations by responding either with, "I'll do it ma�ana," or by agreeing to do something but then not doing it. As foreigners wanting to fit in and be accepted, I think we often tend to over-extend ourselves, which can add stress and lead to exhaustion......

You are absolutely right. I was trying too hard to be nice, and fit in. Im back at work this morning and most folks are giving me wide berth - in part because today is the first day of classes and its a zoo.

Ive about decided to be a (/&%$ - which for me translates to being a bit more self-assertive about my boundaries and not worrying so much if I get along with everyone.

[housed]

This is my first week here in DF and I can definitely empathize with you about the crying. But then, I am 43 and went through a hysterectomy last year, so hormonely speaking, I can cry about anything. My stress comes from not knowing anyone. Don't get me wrong. At 43, after raising my own family and having half of everyone else's family around too, I really needed to be alone to find myself. And it is strange how a person can go to the biggest city in the world and feel so alone at times. But I manage mostly. I have a super teaching job in a prestigious school and live in a great house that is safe and tranquil (yes, in DF). I also have not 1 but 2 Mexican families looking after me. They are 2 elderly sisters who are my landlords and they rent me their mother's house. So in my head, I know everything is great and I made all the right decisions with this time in my life to come here.

But then there is the 'how do I feel' part of the experience. That is what I call culture shock for me. I came from a town in northern Maine of 800 people. I was used to owning and driving my own car. I was independent. If I had questions, I could speak Mainiac language and ask somebody. Here there are 25 million people. I don't have a car and I don't have the freedom to come and go as I want because I don't understand the transportation system yet. And if I have a question, I don't speak Spanish fluently. And sometimes people who don't understand the process of learning a foreign language equate inability to speak correctly with stupidity. I actually have had people comment about how smart I must be after knowing me for a little while because they assumed I was stupid because everytime I open my mouth to speak, it soundsed like I am ignorant!

I am not experiencing typical 'cultural shock' this week, because I have spent a lot of time in Guadalajara. I already knew Mexico a little. I knew that I loved it and wanted to know it and its people more. I had planned to spend my year in GDL, but when I was offered this fantastic job in DF, and didn't really have anything firm in GDL, I jumped at the opportunity. I already had learned about the food, the traditions, and the Mexicans legendary 'flojoness' (what did somebody in these post call it?) Mexicans will promise you anything tomorrow, but it works both ways. I don't have to feel obligated to do everything for them because I just say 'sure'. But so far, I think Mexicans really love to meet people who speak English and are very friendly and give a lot of themselves to a relationship. (And if you are young and pretty, expect a lot more attention than you are used to jejejeeje)!

There was a lot of good advice posted in this message chain about things to do with culture shock. I appreciated all it. And now I have to sign out because the daily thunder storm is moving in and I don't like to be on the computer. I have a web community at groups.msn.com/housed where I am posting regular journal entries. Anyone is invited to join and post messages to this message board as well.

VIVA MEXICO

[MELEE]

I've been in Mexico and at the same school for 5 and 1/2 years. One of the biggest helps is having a lot of other Foreigners to gripe with. There are 15 teachers here and you need someone who understands just how truely ridiculous Mexican banks are (though not as bad as Japanese ones!)
It also helps that I have my new husband. Except that when he hears me griping with the other English teachers he questions whether or not I like Mexico--obviously I do or I wouldn't have stayed here because I'm not the kind of person who wants to be miserable.

However, in this time, I've definately come to realize that this is not for everyone. Somepeople do not have the physical constitution to live here (we've had a couple of teachers who were continuously sick for the whole year they stayed here--and I wonder why they stayed so long) Another teacher who claimed to love Mexico, but was obviously miserable. Another who loved everything, except the noise and actually had to leave when the doctor told her she was begining to suffer from hearing loss. (We live in a particually noisy town) And many other nice people who liked the job, but just couldn't live here for more than a year.

On the other hand, my old boss was here for nearly 20 years, several people for 3 to 5 years, and mine is the third English teacher to local marriage in two years. But those of us who are in for the long haul are the ones who generally can't take more than a couple of weeks in our home countries before all sorts of things start to get on our nerves.

So my advice?--find a couple of other Americans and go into Mexico City and splurge on Tony Roma's or the like, trash Mexico for a couple of hours, then go out to the beautiful countryside, visit a market or ruins, buy handicrafts, eat fresh fruit that is out of season or just unavailable in the US (Like watermelon in December) and savor Mexico. Usually that works for me.

Best of luck

[Ben Round de Bloc]