Job Discussion Forums

[gregmcd101]

Currently in my first spell as an English teacher, in China. I came to China because i could afford to and always had a desire to. The money is excellent locally, but will not go far in the west. Next year I would like to consider making some decent money, and, the M/E seems to be the place. However, they seem to have a passion for higher degrees in English/TEFL/CELTA related fields (based on a quick perusal of the jobs advertised on this site). I have 2 degrees in science (B.Sc and M.Phil, From good UK universities) but am wondering if this is sufficient? Also, any general advice on my proposed venture would be appreciated. There was a previous thread by someone without a degree - he seems to be well out of the picture - can anyone give further insight as to my standing?

[veiledsentiments]

I'd say that you would be well out of it for English teaching... Without at least a CELTA and extensive experience in teaching academic English (reading/writing), you would really be bottom feeding in the job market. It would be low pay in a very expensive environment.

Have you considered teaching science? You would still be at a disadvantage because of a lack of related experience or certification for teaching at primary or secondary level.

VS

[gregmcd101]

Hmmm, I thouht that may be the case - never mind its not like my heart was set on the idea. In the long term I am not a teacher, I just see it as a good way to travel for a few years and get some money whilst doing it. If the M/E is not an option there are others - though the high salary did appeal. Perhaps south america would be nice - who needs money? Cheers anyhoo

[veiledsentiments]

If money isn't the main object and you are just funding travel, you might want to think about the Levant or North Africa. It could be an interesting place to spend a couple of years... Check out Morocco and Egypt, in particular, or even Syria.

VS

[wildfire]

the real answer is that in Oman especially they are desperate for TEACHERS and in KUWAIT AND THE UAE ....

not having a CELTA means little in these dry times.

since the LEBANON -ISREALI 'war' ...most teachers cancelled their plans to teach in the gulf.

THERE is a SERIOUS NEED for teachers with just FIRST DEGREES.

They now hire young early twenty somethings with nearly NO experience and NO cultural sensitivity LOL. But hey, they put in their hours and do their jobs.

IGNORE someone who has been out of the gulf for what 10 years is it VS ? Sorry but you are really out of line giving old advice.

Even now at HCT in UAE they only require a first degree !!!

U sound like a great teacher and very qualified apply with a strong cv and you will get hired.

IGnoRE the bad advice you were given.

Sadly many Unis are now hiring LOCALS as they are so desperate. ANd increasingly non native speakers !!! Russians, Bulgarians, all kinds of Eastern European, Morrocans, Indians with THICK accents who are incomprehensible.

it is a sorry day for the GULF in general..but the media has demonized the GULF and many teachers are scared to come. Plus the salaries are getting lower.

Advice to companies RAISE YOUR SALARIES even by a few hundred per month and TEACHERS WILL COME !!! Money talks darling.

[spicegirl]

The OP actually said that he wants to make some money. So, sorry, wildfire, I agree with Veiled Sentiments, when she says there's not much chance of a decent job, which is well paid, without any EFL quallies. She's not as out-of-date with her info as you strongly imply ... bear in mind that those who leave the Gulf after many years here often have a strong current network of contacts who are still employed in this part of the world.

As far as the government unis in the UAE are concerned, they still seem to be managing to recruit people with relevant experience and qualifications. As yet, we haven't seen any sign of hordes of young + skippy, Peace Corps-like teachers taking over the uni jobs, though of course that day may come.

The HCT in the UAE is, as I understand it, slightly relaxing the MA requirement for some (but not all) EFL teaching posts, due to the current recruitment urgency, but still looks for RSA/Trinity Dips or at least a CELTA or Trinity Cert. I believe for non-EFL teaching posts other standards may apply, so that's where he might have more luck.

Other private universities, as wildfire mentions, don't apply the same standards to their recruitment: however, the salaries and conditions are commensurate with the qualification requirements. Many people working in these institutions can't wait to get out, as can be seen from reading around on Dave's.

The jobs in Oman which don't require CELTA or equivalent seem to get an equally bad write-up.

[wildfire]

B.Sc and M.Phil, that is WHAT the ORIGINAL poster has in terms of degrees... plus experience. Now what recruiter wouldn't at least give this individual an interview. None that I can think of. I mean no one INTELLIGENT anyhow...there are the exceptions.

I have worked with one bitter lady who only hires less experienced teachers as she doesnt want her 'position' as dictator to be exposed and questioned. We look forward to her retirement.

and yes they will find decent work in the GULF with a good school if they word their CV properly because there is a severe shortage of Western educated staff. There are very good private schools.

The government institutions are often factories with LOCALS as management and even LOCALS as Directors of Studies. hahahaha..due to the new laws in the GULF with Emiratization, Saudization , Omanization, and Kuwaitization and so on...i am not sure if Qatar has put its people to work yet.

Locals are sometimes good but often they are just lovely people with really teenage like skills IF THAT !



celtas are a money making scheme, which only teach one basic lesson planning which anyone who has been teaching can freshen up on.

i find that a lot of teachers who have spent their thousands getting their
masters and celtas have a bitterness about seeing less qualified people getting the SAME or in some cases higher pay.

why cause i speak from professional experience. I do have my CELTA before u start attacking me...and yes even i feel the tinge of pain when i see an educated but not articulate Indian or Morrocan or other wise new teacher get paid as much as I . But that is life.

i try not to focus on OTHER people but my own life.

A lot of teachers on this board give inaccurate information. And VS is clearly out of date with many of her posts.

I have companies CONTACTING me and begging me to work for them...
it is THAT bad here.

I see teachers who are NEW to teaching and very young 25 etc get 11000 dirhams a month with various respected companies etc... Mostly because they got hired when companies are desperate.

And they presented themselves well. THEY worked for the job in the interview in otherwords. Which I admitt myself, I have a tendency to just expect to be hired because for some reason I always get hired once I land an interview. But I bet if I put together a better CV and worked a bit harder I could be your new DOS !!! lol.

Actually you would be lucky cause I am intelligent and have ONE personality, a strong one, but just ONE. Unlike many who seem to morph into evil gremlins and freakish cross-dressing fairys-fall down alcoholics and sleazy pedophiles who befriend couples with children. Oh working in TEFL is a joy.


Most Unis are private in the GULF, and if you do your research and negotiate carefully you can make good coin compared to say GREECE or THAILAND LOL...

[Afra]

From the HCT recruitment website posted this month.

[wildfire]

notice how the HCT ad says Bachelors or EQUIVALENT...now they accept the EQUIVALENT to a Bachelors...

and they really focus on just that they want you to SHOW that you have knowledge of teaching practices.

the MA means you will get paid a bit more

the CELTA a false assurance you are a teacher..lol no seriously i do know
that with a strong resume and the ability to SURVIVE their online application process you might get in. Hey I know plenty with over 10 years, their Celta and MA and they STILL didnt get hired cause they didnt survive the dreaded on line HCT form.

anyone that is JUST ONE PLACE.

like all jobs they have a WISH list of qualifications but are looking for good resumes and a nice degree or two...

Don't let the bitter TEFL LIFERS put you off...but THAT is what you will have to WORK with once you get hired.

HAHAHA I wish that they could all admit teaching present perfect and sentence structure is not rocket science and that NATIVE speakers should be hired over non native speakers cause it DOES make a difference.



ps. to all the bitter LIFERS out there...see you at the next STAFF meeting
where you sit in silence and don't rock the boat cause you know it is all a big joke anyway.

[veiledsentiments]

Perhaps since you are so knowledgeable about everything about education in the ME, unlike my dozens of friends and acquaintances who are still working there, do enlighten us on exactly how many non-degree or CELTA only people are working at HCT or ZU or PI or UAEU or KU or AUS or QU or or or

Of course there are places that will hire the unqualified... and then treat them like slaves and pay them little... One need only read the many threads of the people complaining about lousy management and lousy treatment at this type of place.

That is NOT what the OP was looking for... and his degrees are in neither education or English, but science - which cuts out all the employers I mentioned... and the type of situation he was looking for.

And the only 'bitter' person that I see here is you...

VS

[wildfire]

VS why is it that when you were recently 'attacked' but yet another poster on this site you told people they were free to read or not read your advice.

yet although you clearly scan EVERY post on this board for many countries which you have not been in for many years you feel threatened when someone more knowledgable than yourself corrects you.

No teacher is a slave no given extra hours or even belittled for being young, or not having a simple silly thing like a CELTA, when they bring with them one or even two highly respectable degrees and some experience.

Even newbies i have worked with have NEVER been abused. And I work at the DREADED private Unis and Schools so oft mentioned here.

U are living in the dark ages, and the only abuse might come from some bitter old ladies who are hanging on for dear life for thier jobs or some drunkards who like to cover up their incompetencies by forcing there bully like authority over a more niave person.

but these happen everywhere.

I say IGNORE the bad advice of the old lady who hasnt worked in the GULF since they got electricity.

And listen to someone who KNOWS what they are talking about.

Bitter, not me darling. I am disappointed that I have to work with such small minded people and who resent it when another teacher is happy and thriving in the local community.
And those who want to discourage interested and educated Western staff from getting jobs.


Gosh I cant wait till I do the hiring i will bring in bright happy people and i wont feel threatened by their desire and passion.

It doesnt matter WHAT kind of FIRST degree the person has anymore. TIMES have changed, and a teacher is a teacher after all.

A native speaker teaching I AM SALIM HE IS SALIM etc...doesnt need
an MA or even a BA in languages and I have only met one teacher who had a languages speciality. And SHE was a horrible teacher who bragged about her MA hahahaha... she had no clue about what they students needed and tried to force feed them crap from her course.
I couldnt even understand her material, it was a joke.
She was quite possibly the worst teacher i have ever met.

Studying Literature does NOTHING to help you or students who are
learning EFL. That is a fact. Not having a CELTA can be overlooked based on individual CV's and that is what I stated.

I know from the people whom hire that the candidate who is the ORIGINAL poster of this thread would be most welcome at most Uni's in the GULF.

They are not paid less that is a lie. And they are not exploited like slaves.
That comment alone is laughable.

Only a bitchy coworker might try to intimidate a hard working keen newbie to the Gulf.

To the ORIGINAL POSTER...this thread is an example of the CRAP one has to put up with teaching in the GULF. It is NORMAL.

I should post all the INTERNAL emails our UNI circulates.
Then you could see the sickness in TEFL.

[nomadykaty]

Wildfire, I have never seen anyone interpret "Bachelor`s degree in English Language or equivalent" as "Bachelors or EQUIVALENT...now they accept the EQUIVALENT to a Bachelors."

I always thought that meant English Language or equivalent. I guess I missed out on a lot of jobs interpreting it the way I did.

Where do you work? Where I work recruitment is down, so now they can be picky about who they hire. A few years back when they were hiring the masses, they did hire kids just out of graduate school with very little experience, but those days are finished.

The OP should apply for jobs in the Middle East/ Gulf but its no guarantee that the he will get a good job based on his qualifications.

[wildfire]

well i have a Bachelors but NOT in ENGLISH --something very far from it.
and yes i have a CELTA A+ score.

I have never had a problem getting a job, and have been offered jobs from the best places lately.

Realizing that years put in, count for something and so does your reputation ---it is a small world. I finally have the YEARS to count me as a solid potential TELF LIFER...scary. But most of all I have a reputation for being a solid and fun person who is not bitchy, nor bullies or belittles others around me. As well, I mix well with the locals. All this counts.

Don't fool yourself. If you don't get out and socialize with the community your just another faceless application to the best Uni in the country.

If you work in a small place perhaps u dont need teachers. But I know that most of the GULF is in a drought and have already hired a rash of non native speakers for Sept.

One does not need a degree in ENGLISH STUDIES. That is a falacy.

And as a newbie maybe I was lucky, back then but I always worked.
Again a lot has to do with how you WORD your CV and how you present yourself.

Like anything in this world.

Where do i work...? Where do u work ?
I prefer to keep my place of work OFF this board as I feel it is unprofessional to include them in any such rant.

If I have a problem with my employer I deal with the directly and follow procedure.

For the Original POSTER...again don't let one or two or even ten people discourage you they just don't know what they are talking about.

I have gotten over 5 friends jobs in the Gulf this year and I gave them the same advice.

Be professional Be positive And Don't listen to most of the crap on this board. Some people don't get jobs cause they fail the interview process....do your research on the country you are applying to and take it seriously.

I can't believe how one interviewee asked my friend what she ment by
CULTURALLY SENSITIVE ..and if there was really a difference in students from Japan to the GULF...

HELLLOOOO>>>>> there are no guarantees in life.
Just stay away from the negative advice it isn't ment to help you.

[veiledsentiments]

So far I have yet to see you make one accurate correction of any post that I have made... and it is obvious that you know little or nothing about me. So thus far you have not proven yourself more knowledgeable than me or any of the other myriad posters... and the only unprovoked attack has come from you.

I am one of the few consistently positive posters here... as I said, you seem to the one with a bitterness problem. Nor do I lower myself to personally attacking posters who have done nothing to me. Fortunately age has brought me a certain level of maturity.

As I said to the other inaccurate attacker... feel free to not read my posts.

VS

[nomadykaty]

Wildfire- I'm not interested in the name of your school/university, I just wanted to know which country you work in.

I teach in the UAE and I see a very different picture than you see.

The public university that I teach in has decreased the number of non-native English speaking teachers, hired less than a dozen teachers for this academic year and has started to not rehire teachers who don't have MATESOL or Applied Linguistics. Even though HCT need teachers, in the Emirates that I'm in, I have yet to see masses of new recruits with just BAs and CELTAs to their names unless they've come from the BC.

So I just wanted to know which country you're in because you paint a very rosy picture.

And I'm not attacking this OP, I think he should apply.