Job Discussion Forums

[SeasonedVet]

I know that we have already had the discussion about Japanese being translated into English and the time it takes for people to translate or Not translate and the frustration or joy some of us experience in these situations.
So while not wanting to resurrect that thread I do however want to mention These Two Words.
I have Never and I mean Never yet gotten anyone I know to translate these two words succinctly without any long discussion. I have asked a number of people of varying levels of English speaking abilities and varying levels of translation/explaining abilities.
I am now asking you the users of this board if you know the meanings of these two words. However I'd like you to do something. I'd like you to split it into C and D.
C: if you already knew the meanings please say so
and D: if you had to check please say so.
Many thanks
The words are 1) Yabai
2) Biimyou

[johanne]

My Japanese husband said immediately Yabai means "it's not good", however there was a long, long pause (several minutes) before he admitted he couldn't translate biimyou. He says he hears that word but never says it.

[dove]

I think I'm in the C category but I'm not 100% sure about bimyou--doesn't it mean something like "It's hard to say" or "It's too close to call" ?

[furiousmilksheikali]

[kdynamic]

There are NO 'untranslatable' words in Japanese. None.

The issue with yabai and bimyo is that they are used in a diverse range of contexts, and are covered by not one but many English words depending on the context. There are many many English words where the reverse is true when trying to put them in Japanese. That's one of the basic facts of differences between languages - terms cover different ranges of meanings and overlap in different ways. No translator, no matter how good, can work out of context with terms like those.

If you gave me the yabai or bimyo in context I am sure I could come up with an appropriate translation.

If you yourself are simply asking because you want to know the meanings of those words, I could explain the various ways they could be used and give you some examples of different English words that carry those meanings.

So what are you really asking here?

[Zzonkmiles]

1. I translate "yabai" as "risky." You could also translate it as "dangerous" or "something that has trouble written all over it." "Yikes!" or "Uh oh/Oh no!" are other good ways to translate it.

You could use "yabai" when you look at your watch and realize that you are going to miss the train unless you run to the station. You could also use "yabai" when your friends try to coax you into chatting up a cute woman at the bar and you have no confidence and think approaching her would go against your better judgment.

1a. Slang is always changing. As a result "yabai" now also means "really good," depending on the context. For example, if you taste some really good food, you could say "mecha yabai kore!" which basically means "Wow! This is really good!"

2. "Bimyo" is a word used to describe something that is "vague" or "better left unsaid." It can also mean "sketchy" or "dodgy." Sometimes it's interchangeable with "muzukashii" when someone doesn't want to reveal their true feelings about something because it's negative.

Your students might use "bimyo" if you ask them how easy today's lesson is. They might not want to say "the lesson was too hard," so they'll say "bimyo." You could also use "bimyo" to describe someone who you can't get a good reading on. You can't tell if the person is good or not, but something about him makes you a bit hesitant to be his friend.

[Venti]

[Apsara]

"Yabai" I think corresponds quite well to "uh-oh" or "now the sh*t's going to hit the fan" or something similar.

"Bimyo" is a bit more, well, bimyo. "Subtle" is one translation but it's used in other situations as well.

I was discussing the word "shibui" with my husband the other night- we couldn't think of a way to translate it- in one word at least. "Astringent" is the dictionary definition, but the meaning is something like "cool in an oji-san kind of way, like Sean Connery".

I have been learning Japanese since the age of 12 and have lived here almost 10 years, and I am noticing these days that there are quite a few words I seem to have learned only from context, not by translation, and I sometimes need to think about how to express the same idea in English.

Everything is translatable, but every language has words that can't be translated into another language with just one word. It doesn't mean the concept doesn't exist, just that it is expressed in a different way.

"Natsukashii" is a very good example- just because we don't have a single word in English to cover the situations when natsukashii is used in Japanese doesn't mean we don't feel nostalgia.

[kdynamic]

You're also aiming at a moving target, since language is constantly evolving. Yabai is a great example of that. Just like how the English word 'bad' can mean 'good' in modern slang.

There are certain words or expressions in Japanese that require and entire sentence in English, and others that are expressed only with tone of voice in one language, while articulated verbally in the other (such as aspects of the ～たり～たり contruction which is most commonly expressed nonverbally in English using intonation).

There also also catgories of words in Japanese that don't have direct English equivilants, such as many 擬態語. And I find that many 和製英語 terms require a whole phrase in English (ironically).

I think a fundamental rule of language, used by linguists, is that every langauge can express any meaning you can imagine, in its own way.

[gaijinalways]

[kdynamic]

Tachiyomi isn't even a hard one. The english word 'browse' pretty much covers it. And if not, you can just say 'read something in the store without buying it.' That's not even very long.... hardly describing nuclear fission to pygmys, as it were
But even that is possible. You just have to start from simple, familier thing and work on up. A problem along those lines is more about education than inherent linguistic qualities.

There are some concepts in a given culture that are just absent from another culture. But I don't see this as being any different from having an object/sport/tradition in one culture and not in another. You introduce the new object along with it's name. So, for example, at some point tango dancing got introduced to Japan and Sumo wrestling to the West, and they retained their original names. Same goes for Christmas, Samurai, etc etc. And more abstract concepts like wabi-sabi. Sure, there is no good direct English translation for wabi-sabi. You have to name it and then describe it in detail if your audience wouldn't be familier with it as is. But this is the same for any other unfamiliar concept in created in or introduced to English, like 'co-dependant co-arising' or 'zietgiest' or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

(PS everyone I am not trying to be argumentative here. I just think this is an interesting topic and I'd like to stimulate more discussion on it)

[SeasonedVet]

kdynamic wrote:

[SeasonedVet]

Venti wrote:

[furiousmilksheikali]

[SeasonedVet]

furiousmilksheikali wrote: