Job Discussion Forums

[StayingPower]

Where do you draw the line between acting Chinese and not acting Chinese? I mean, how and when do you not identify and what are the biggest pitfalls?

For instance, would you go so far as to accept bribes or break the law by unethical business standards like I've heard is rampant there, just because the boss and you can make more money or something?(Like not paying tax.) You know it's illegal, but the inclination there being something called guanxi and the act of connections and saving face, typical Chinese identifying features for a foreigner, will get you by etc.

[BigWally]

im not sure i really understand this question...as the old saying goes, "when in rome.." but as far as acting Chinese/Taiwanese, other than the way that you learn to drive I think thats the only part of my life that closely resembles the life of a Taiwanese...well, and the food that I eat, most of the time (unless i get the McGrumbles in my McStomach)

as a guideline in life, i dont accept bribes from chinese, africans, canadians, americans, etc...so i think that is a moral decision every person has to make on their own...

yes, you are right that in Taiwanese society (although not solely here, as this applies to North American society too, but in a different way) there is a large emphasis of saving face, and not damaging ones reputation, as many jobs, employment opportunities are found/given based on family and friends connections, and as such, one with a good reputation will have more offers than those with a reputation for public drunkeness, failed businesses, etc....

unless you are a north american/european of asian descent and you dont look NA/euro then you will be considered "waiguaoren" by many here, and as such you will be most likely left out of many aspects of society (ie. when a cop pulls you over sees your foreginer and just waves you thru, or at 7/11 when they give you a fork instead of chopsticks with your noodles) unless you choose to put yourself into it, and this will garner respect from many locals (in my experience, the Taiwanese can be very friendly, and the more interest you show towards their ideas/culture the more receptive they will be to showing you what its all about)

[KaiFeng]

Often this a source of advantage for you the consultant/corporate trainer.

Regularly when meeting with new clients, I exlained that I had two rate structures, one (my base) assuming no taxes would be witheld, and another (boosted 15% or so) reflecting the need to deduct taxes. I explained that most of my clients did not withold taxes, but that a small number did, so I had two arrangements. Of course it was up to them which they chose.

There were also two ways to handle your taxes. One, far far inferior, was to receive a standard W-2. The other was to receive a tax witholding statement stating I was a technical expert. This made a big difference for my taxes. So, if the client was going to include taxes, my approach was something like this:

Me: Now, I assume I will not receive health insurance, transportation subsidy, lunch allowance, or annual bonus from this assignment?

Client: Of course!

Me: And I think we can agree that I will not need to work with your staff for eight hours a day or more.

Client: Indeed!

Me: So it would not make sense to list me as an employee since I don't qualify as one by any standard I can imagine. At least, that's what my (imaginary) lawyer tells me. So, with your tax folks, please explain that I will not be receiving a standard W-2.

Client: Okay.

By the way, the other way to handle this tax classification thing, or should I say the other part to handling this, is to get everything else worked out, and then, when you both have that good buzz of anticipation, bring this up as a "detail", to be handled in passing: "Oh, by the way".

This always worked for me. Though one client, I think it was Disney, went back on their agreement to not tax. But this was towards the end of my tenure in Taipei, and I had better things to do than argue with them about a few thou (NT$, that is).

What does this have to do with acting Chinese or not? Cuz they love wheeling and dealing so much?

[StayingPower]

What I'm trying to get at here is that you try your hardest and utmost to affiliate and assimilate into a foreign society, or culture, that is more accepting of their ways than perhaps of yours, thereby leaving you stumped at moments as to not accepting theirs over yours. Maybe you don't like Chinese food because it's greasy or uses bad oil. Or maybe you think pork is unhealthy. Perhaps this will divide you from the cultural climate of eating together, like the Taiwanese are apt to do. Nonetheless, you come to crucial moments where "issues" will separate you from "being Chinese", and these issues will cause a rift.

A case in point may be "lying" to save face. From a cultural perspective, I've been taught that "Honesty is the best policy." I also consider this-honesty-a universal, even an absolute, to some extent. But the sum and substance of what I'm getting at is, that sooner or later you'll come across those who will see this, and you, as not complying. I want to know what pitfalls those of you there have had, and in what areas, so that I may avoid them.

[KaiFeng]

I kind of feel like everyone will draw this in different areas, since so much of the value set we bring to the table will vary with personality. And maybe I'm not catching the question behind the question. But why let that stop me?

Harvard Business Review a couple of years back had a great article comparing how negotiations work in China, comparing it with dominant American styles. This gave a good exploration of differences in values.

I seldom faced ethical crises while there. In fact, I have to think really hard to come up with one at all. People cut you slack for not being Chinese in ways which they would not do for compatriots. That was definitely a good thing.

But, addressing something you say here: "What I'm trying to get at here is that you try your hardest and utmost to affiliate and assimilate into a foreign society, or culture, that is more accepting of their ways than perhaps of yours, thereby leaving you stumped at moments as to not accepting theirs over yours.".

I knew I would never be Chinese, and would never be seen as Chinese. So I didn't worry about that at all. I mean, why bother? After my first couple of years, my goal was academic or business. It wasn't self-exploration or self-validation. So I didn't really try to affiliate or assimilate. For me, that wasn't why I went. I could roleplay an interaction according to local expectations (business discussions, for example), but that did not mean I was trying to make people think I was like them. I think the technical term is "politeness".

Oddly enough, when I returned to the states after 20 years on the frontlines, Chinese wife and kids in tow, I found I had changed in ways I had never been conscious of. I still miss it!

Perhaps I had changed unconsciously, because I had stopped trying?

Perhaps I had been unconsciously drawn to a culture which would complement or constellate something dormant in my personality?

Who can know? Who can know?

It brings to mind a haiku....

Who can know? Really, who?
We try to see ourselves, but-
Who ate my doughnut?

[StayingPower]

That's pretty good, Feng. I see what you mean. Thanks.

I want to touch upon something deeper, however, so I'll get back to this if I can.

[Ki]

I just remember never to show up on time when meeting one of my Taiwanese friends. And to always carry a newspaper to peruse when they leave me waiting.

[SanChong]

[KaiFeng]

It's all good. For the consultant, the clock starts when it's supposed to start. And then if the client is late, just pull out the Asian Wall Street Journal or Fortune and get some prep done!

I found that my clients with cars were the ones who were always late. It's one reason I never drove while living there. It just wasn't cost effective.