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7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

i'm trying to put together a lesson on appositives but have a question. let me provide some examples: appositives in [...]

1. Your friend [Bill] is in trouble.

2. My brother�s car, [a sporty red convertible], is the envy of my friends.

3. [The first state to ratify the US constitution], delaware is rich in history.

my question is this:

how do you determine which is the appositive/appositive phrase and which is the noun? is it that the noun is always the element of the sentence without which the sentence wont make sense?

to add to my confusion:

while noting the use of commas in one, why is the appositive in the following sentence [john kennedy], and in the second sentence its [the popular US president]? whats the difference between these two?

the popular US president [John Kennedy] was known for his eloquent speeches.

john kennedy, [the popular US president], was known for his eloquent speeches.

source:http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_appos.html

7969

foreignDevil · Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 580

foreignDevil · Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 580

a little later... I am curious as to why you are doing a "lesson on appositves". in the end, appositives are just sub-ordinate clauses. is this your lesson? certainly if you are a journalism teacher teaching subordinate clauses would be useful. but i i don't get the "appositive" focus..

Cool

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7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

foreign devil, half of my classes are writing classes. any practice at all in constructing coherent sentences is good practice for these future english teachers. appositives arent that difficult to understand but in a few of the websites i looked to get information, i found some contradictions. the only question i really have that is unanswered is:

is there any one way to determine the appositive from the noun in any sentence? is the appositive ALWAYS preceded by the noun?

thanks for your posts. 7969

foreignDevil · Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 580

danielb · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 490

Are you sure it has to follow the noun?

For examples and correct punctuation, check out:

http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/appositive.htm

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

danielb · Joined: 08 Aug 2003 Posts: 490

I don't think it has to be the proper noun cobber. I'm no expert but of the two examples you mentioned, one is a non-essential appositive and the other is not. That's why there is a difference in punctuation.

DaXiangLouis · Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Posts: 30

Daniel B has it right:

My best friend, a farmer, lives in the country.

No proper noun there.

The easiest way to view these little beasts is as reduced relative clauses (i.e. with pronouns and verbs ripped out) - in fact, they can be re-written as such:

My best friend, who is a farmer, lives in the country.

They follow the same punctuation rules as relative clauses (commas for non-defining, no commas for defining), plus the same word order rules...

For the defining case, the apossitive comes after the 'main' noun (it should be clear by reading it anyway):

John the farmer livese on Green Street.

For the non-defining case, it's the bit separated by commas (i.e. non-essential information):

Edward Norton, one of the finest actors of his generation, is yet to win an Oscar.

One of the finest actors of his generation, Edward Norton, is yet to win an Oscar.

From a teaching point of view, the relationship between appositives and relative clauses is the easiest way to present them (assuming the students are familiar with relative clauses, whish they no daubt will be if you're covering appositives). Give them some relative clauses and have them chop out the pronouns and verbs, and likewise have them put some 'back' into sentences containing apposition. Then all should be clear...

KarenB · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 227 Location: Hainan

With regard to commas,
"John Kennedy, the popular U.S. President, blah blah blah."
"The popular U.S. President John Kennedy blah blah blah."

In the first sentence, because we have the name John Kennedy, then the appositive is just give "extra" info, and is unnecessary to the basic meaning of the sentence. In that instance, we use commas to set it off (something like parenthesis).

In the 2nd sentence, if all we had was "the popular U.S. president," we wouldn't know which president, and thus the name John Kennedy is necessary and thus we do not use commas.

Here's another example of when, and when not, to use commas with appositives.

My sister Heidi is coming to visit today. (in this case I have more than one sister, so the name Heidi is necessary to define which sister, and thus no commas).

The Statue of Liberty, a New York city landmark, was donated by France.
(here, the appositive is "extra" and thus the commas)