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Warrior10
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Canada.
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 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Most reputable agencies in T.O.? |
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Hello forumites,
What are the best agencies (that are situated in Toronto) for teaching in China? I'm looking to go to Shanghai in the next few months. Thanks in advance. |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings fellow Torontonian. Please don't use a recruitment agency to find a job in China.
Here are a couple of reasons why:
- It's easy to find a job in China
- You will pay for your own recruitment with a lower salary.
- Chinese schools can be extremely sneaky and "miscommunication" caused by third party intervention will haunt you for as long as you work for that school. The recruiter does not speak for the school.
- A recruitment agency can and will do nothing in the event of a dispute.
I hope this helps. |
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Warrior10
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your insight, fellow T.O-nian.
I guess I just want to have that stability of getting placed somewhere for the first few weeks just to get my feet on the ground. Afterwards, I'll start looking elsewhere.
Do you know of any T.O agencies? Anyone else? I'm not ignoring saint's response just want to see my options. |
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foreignDevil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Warrior10 wrote: |
Thanks for your insight, fellow T.O-nian.
I guess I just want to have that stability of getting placed somewhere for the first few weeks just to get my feet on the ground. Afterwards, I'll start looking elsewhere.
Do you know of any T.O agencies? Anyone else? I'm not ignoring saint's response just want to see my options. |
so, after a few weeks at a school you plan on looking elsewhere. Hey guy, even if I wasn''t ill-disposed to this sort of talk, I would be hard-pressed to consider you as "job material".
do you have any idea how unappealing your post makes you out to be?
If I was you, I would edit. or change your username. or better yet.. don't come to china.
 have a nice day!
foreigndevil |
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Warrior10
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| foreignDevil wrote: |
| Warrior10 wrote: |
Thanks for your insight, fellow T.O-nian.
I guess I just want to have that stability of getting placed somewhere for the first few weeks just to get my feet on the ground. Afterwards, I'll start looking elsewhere.
Do you know of any T.O agencies? Anyone else? I'm not ignoring saint's response just want to see my options. |
so, after a few weeks at a school you plan on looking elsewhere. Hey guy, even if I wasn''t ill-disposed to this sort of talk, I would be hard-pressed to consider you as "job material".
do you have any idea how unappealing your post makes you out to be?
If I was you, I would edit. or change your username. or better yet.. don't come to china.
have a nice day!
foreigndevil |
It makes me sound unappealing, I admit.
But from what I've read here, is it not unusual for teachers to leave one job for another while doing EFL in China? It's not idealistic, but it's reality.
Don't get me wrong, I am quite willing to stay with my initial company/agency if I am more or less content with things. I should've made that clearer earlier. |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: Dear Trontonian.... |
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nil
Last edited by william wallace on Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: Most reputable agencies in T.O.? |
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joinin' in on greatings to a fella TO-nian .. and as well i've got to join in on the suggestion of not looking for those "agencies" there .. there're many ESL jobs in China and Shanghai's not an exception .. do your search, talk with your prospective employers prior to your arrival, read your contract well before making your decision, and get a contact on foreign teachers should you be choosing a school/center .. by the way, make sure you get the right work permit (read forums about contracts or work permits), your intentions of changing jobs is understandable though legally hmm contracts carry their obligations ... you have rights to discuss that flexibility you want with those prospective employers of yours
Good luck fella, keep us posted how you'll do
and
cheers and beers to FTs comin' to China  |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
do you have any idea how unappealing your post makes you out to be?
If I was you, I would edit. or change your username. or better yet.. don't come to china.
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I want to start a thread titled, "Provoke This Response!" Users will post messages that they feel would provoke such a harsh response. |
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foreignDevil
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| saint57 wrote: |
| Quote: |
do you have any idea how unappealing your post makes you out to be?
If I was you, I would edit. or change your username. or better yet.. don't come to china.
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I want to start a thread titled, "Provoke This Response!" Users will post messages that they feel would provoke such a harsh response. |
Sorry dude, but I don't think it was that harsh. Strong, maybe. But not harsh. The long saga of the flakes from Yunnan (was that op No-exit?) had just barely wound down; a thread in which everyone clucked their tongues and bemoaned irresponsible FTs who duck out of their responsibilities blablabla.
And then this new op tells us he is looking for a job, but he(and I am paraphrasing) plans to "leave when he finds something else." Now, I am not directly comparing this OP to those flaky people in Yunnan, for all I know he is a decent person. But... he clearly stated he would leave after a short time if he found something better.
To give a little personal detail, to help you understand why I posted such a strong response. My school has recently become an outright revolving door. New FTs are hired, and then leave in rapid succession, sometimes within a matter of weeks. With all honesty I can say it is not the working conditions at this school. In terms of pay it is dead-on average, maybe a little above average. In terms of staff and how you are treated, and how things are organized, it is way ABOVE average. And the city/environment outside of the school is one of the better ones in China. And the FTS who are coming and going are not psychos or weirdos at all. But it seems this mentality has developed that you can sign a contract, teach a couple weeks of classes, and then give one day's notice, pack up, and leave. Not only is this unfair to the students (classes have to be postponed, in some cases indefinitely) but it is also unfair to the teachers who are left behind. Who will I be working with next weekend? Do I bother trying to develop a working relationship with him/her? It is not exactly 'stressful'... but it is not enjoyable.
So, I stand by my words to the OP. Am I really that far off the mark? I am not a school owner, but I know there are more than a few owners who read these pages. To you owners out there: would you jump at offering the OP a job? And I may not be an owner, but I am a teacher; I do hear of openings from time to time(as I said, my school is a revolving door, and there are certainly openings there at what is a good place to work). But why would I want to recommend someone who has stated he would leave? Would you recommend him to your school?
Anyway, saint57. I did like your post. That is a good idea for a thread.
foreigndevil. |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| New FTs are hired, and then leave in rapid succession, sometimes within a matter of weeks. With all honesty I can say it is not the working conditions at this school. In terms of pay it is dead-on average, maybe a little above average. |
Perhaps the problem is newbies in general. Many newbies probably have expectations that are far too high. They hear stories about all the money you can save by teaching abroad. When they face reality, they may think they are too good for the situation they are in. They may also be intimidated by the gigantic class sizes in China. Korea was hell, but the class sizes were small and I learned what worked and what didn't. When I got to China I was teaching up to 45 students. I can't imagine what I would have done if I were a complete newbie. A TESL certificate simply isn't enough.
Also, there are "teachers of fortune" who can't see past their next "250/hour private" and will bounce around and mess over anyone in their path. |
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Brian Caulfield
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 1247
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| If I was you . This is the unreal unconditional case and should be, if I were you . It is a common mistake made by Americans |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Brian Caulfield wrote: |
| If I was you . This is the unreal unconditional case and should be, if I were you . It is a common mistake made by Americans |
I wish you could have seen the essay I was asked to correct today. Your head would have exploded. |
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Warrior10
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Toronto, Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| foreignDevil wrote: |
| saint57 wrote: |
| Quote: |
do you have any idea how unappealing your post makes you out to be?
If I was you, I would edit. or change your username. or better yet.. don't come to china.
|
I want to start a thread titled, "Provoke This Response!" Users will post messages that they feel would provoke such a harsh response. |
Sorry dude, but I don't think it was that harsh. Strong, maybe. But not harsh. The long saga of the flakes from Yunnan (was that op No-exit?) had just barely wound down; a thread in which everyone clucked their tongues and bemoaned irresponsible FTs who duck out of their responsibilities blablabla.
And then this new op tells us he is looking for a job, but he(and I am paraphrasing) plans to "leave when he finds something else." Now, I am not directly comparing this OP to those flaky people in Yunnan, for all I know he is a decent person. But... he clearly stated he would leave after a short time if he found something better.
To give a little personal detail, to help you understand why I posted such a strong response. My school has recently become an outright revolving door. New FTs are hired, and then leave in rapid succession, sometimes within a matter of weeks. With all honesty I can say it is not the working conditions at this school. In terms of pay it is dead-on average, maybe a little above average. In terms of staff and how you are treated, and how things are organized, it is way ABOVE average. And the city/environment outside of the school is one of the better ones in China. And the FTS who are coming and going are not psychos or weirdos at all. But it seems this mentality has developed that you can sign a contract, teach a couple weeks of classes, and then give one day's notice, pack up, and leave. Not only is this unfair to the students (classes have to be postponed, in some cases indefinitely) but it is also unfair to the teachers who are left behind. Who will I be working with next weekend? Do I bother trying to develop a working relationship with him/her? It is not exactly 'stressful'... but it is not enjoyable.
So, I stand by my words to the OP. Am I really that far off the mark? I am not a school owner, but I know there are more than a few owners who read these pages. To you owners out there: would you jump at offering the OP a job? And I may not be an owner, but I am a teacher; I do hear of openings from time to time(as I said, my school is a revolving door, and there are certainly openings there at what is a good place to work). But why would I want to recommend someone who has stated he would leave? Would you recommend him to your school?
Anyway, saint57. I did like your post. That is a good idea for a thread.
foreigndevil. |
Foreigndevil, thanks for implying that I'm a decent person. I really am.
But I don't get why you're turning your nose up at me. Wouldn't you leave your job IF you found something better? Wouldn't mostly anyone, as ambitious individuals? Granted I may have to start somewhere, but if I come across something that's better for me, I would depart from my initial work as diplomatically as I can. That does not mean I wouldn't give it my best while I am there. And I would hope for no hard feelings from the owner or co-workers. If they do - then there's nothing I can do about that, but at the end of the day it's A for Apple, B for Ball and C for yourself.
Furthermore, I doubt that it would take the school that long to get me replaced. As for bothering to develop a working relationship with me, why not? It would definitely be a factor in my opting to stay/depart, and my experience on the job on a whole. |
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