Job Discussion Forums

[The Noodles]

Well i've been in Hangzhou for a while, and most of the Chinese businessmen/women seem to have their fingers in the international trade industy.

Now you may ask what this has to do with teaching... nothing. However it did dawn on me that I can get a lot of very items in china and have them sent to the UK where family could sell them on.

I was thinking Jewellery as it's light, inexpensive and people in the UK really go for this Tibetan and Chinese stuff.

Plus I know several people involved in the Jewlery trade back home. This is by no means a grand opperation of any kind.. But i was thinking It could become bigger Should i find something people want in bulk!!

Do I need any kind of licence to do this? Do I have to set up my own company? In fact what the hell do I have to do..? I've got no idea.

Is it as easy as finding something you like, going to a factory ordering it in bulk, finding an outlet in the UK and sending it to them? Ofcourse it might be an idea to find the outlet b4 buyingin bulk and sending samples to them!!

Could i be scamed? i bet i probaby could...!!

Help me PLEASE

[saint57]

You'll lose whatever money you sink into this operation.

[The Noodles]

you seem very sure..

Have you seen it happen?

[saint57]

I guess you could send some silk shirts home and get a relative to sell them at a car boot sale. Just keep it simple and see how it all works.

[NathanRahl]

I don't know if the Saint is right, it would matter more how you do things then anyhting else.

You have to keep some important things in mind. First off, shipping. Yes, whatever you buy may be super cheap here, but add in shipping and handling, and your profit margin just went right into the toilet.

To make any real money exporting any goods out of china, you have to do it in huge bulk.

Now, if you really wish to make some money, get other people to flip the shipping bill for you.

Chinese swordsmiths, here is one good example. They sell a sword for 45 or 50 dollars american, big deal. However, they go on to let you know that the exact shipping cost is more then the blade your buying. This is of course often BS, not always, but reallt it's just a clever way to make more money. However, I think you get the picture, and my point.

Your costs for selling in the USA are mostly in shipping, so just sell from here and use the net as your venue. Yahoo auctions, ebay, you can open up stores on either one. Better to start your own websight though.

It may sound expensive, and it is in the short term, but your profit margin will be quite high, compared to if you try shipping and carting things back to the USA, which will hardly be worth your trouble.

Hope this has helped, take care

[kev7161]

I posted a reply over on off-topic but as a follow up:

I actually put a few silk scarves and stuff (that I bought for 10rmb here and took home one summer) up on ebay. A few hits but not a one sold. I think the scarves are really nice and everyone I've ever gifted them to just fawn over them like they are the BEST THINGS IN THE WORLD.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an ebayer from way back so I love the site, but some things I guess just have to be seen and touched before someone will buy.

[clark.w.griswald]

Noodles I am sure that you are not the first to think of doing this and you are certainly not going to be the last.

In answer to your question, if it was as easy as just mailing stuff home and making a lot of money then everyone would probably be doing it. Some do try, as kev has pointed out above, but very few would be successful. There are many companies, both local and overseas, doing exactly what you are looking at doing so it is feasible, but I doubt that you will acheive much on a small scale.

The fact that you are looking at something very specific and that you have contacts for this back home may make it easier, but I doubt that you will find it as easy as it appears.

From a legal point of view what you are planning to do would not be legal. You need to be a licenced trading company to ship products overseas and this is what stops many factories from shipping stuff overseas even though there is a market for it. They either need to invest in setting up a trading company, or pay a percentage to trading company to handle the deal for them. To do what you want to do legally you might want to consider this sort of arrangement.

The problem is that when you send stuff you will need to declare what you are sending. If you declare it honestly as an item of trade then you will need tp prove that you are licenced to trade in that item. The items will attract duties and taxes at both ends which will make a once cheap item that bit more expensive. You could send it as a gift but if you get caught that could be trouble.

The final issue, and one that may not impact upon you if it is jewelry, is the issue of making sure that your items meet the safety requirements back home. This could include fumigation or compliance to safety standards.

Finally, you need to make sure that the items you are shipping are not in breach of copyright. Remember the American guy (Randy Guthrie) in Shanghai a couple of years back who made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling pirated DVD's in the states only to get imprisoned in China for a number of years and then returned home at the end of his sentence to be imprisoned back home for a further number of years

There is a lot to this that make it a business, but I guess that sending a few items home to sell on ebay is not going to attract too much attention.

[NathanRahl]

[quote="kev7161"]I posted a reply over on off-topic but as a follow up:

I actually put a few silk scarves and stuff (that I bought for 10rmb here and took home one summer) up on ebay. A few hits but not a one sold. I think the scarves are really nice and everyone I've ever gifted them to just fawn over them like they are the BEST THINGS IN THE WORLD.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an ebayer from way back so I love the site, but some things I guess just have to be seen and touched before someone will buy.[/quote]




I did not say anything about silk scarves, that was saint. Gentleman mentioned jewelery.

[saint57]

[Paul Barufaldi]

Legally, you'll need an item specific export liscence for your company, which comes at the cost of a deposit to to government of somewhere around 200,000 RMB as I recall. Well, they say 'deposit' but I've heard you never actually get it back. If that's too rich for your blood, you'll want to partner with a legal export company, and they will ask for a hearty helping of the pie, maybe 6-12%. Guanxi can come into to play here. A lot of big chinese corps are already liscensed, and if your good Chinese friend happens to work for one, you might be able to put the deal together that way. But, obviously, you'll be greasing palms all the way up the ladder. Try to export at least a 1/2 container, and go with a reputable shipping company. It's worth the extra money to NOT get screwed.

(In fact, if you've got a buyer AND are looking at least a 1/2 container, contact me.)

And don't expect those greasy palms to actually do ANYTHING. They will just sit back and wait for the dough to roll in. They'd rather risk the deal falling through than actually get off their asses. You will have to expedite the deal constantly, make things happen, and re-motivate people to do the things they've already agreed to do.

And if you happen to come out even slightly ahead after you've been fleeced and lied to in every concievable way by the supplier and faced down meaningless international lawsuit threats by the buyer, then you may just have what it takes to make it in export.

[saint57]

Paul Barufaldi nailed it. Great post![/quote]

[vikdk]

to see how many people are actually importing into the UK the very stuff you're talking about - and just about everything else made here - get your folk back home to send you a copy of the trader - you can find it in smiths - quite an eye-opener

[bearcanada]

To Noodles;

I have been purchasing and exporting goods from China for about 20 years, from both inside and outside the country. There is no reason you shouldn�t pursue your idea of doing the same; it is exactly as easy as it sounds, and can be trouble-free if you exercise a bit of patience and common sense.

The profits are high. Typically, an item that costs 10 RMB at wholesale in China will retail for $10 in North America. And typically, the wholesale cost of that item in the US will cost between 40% and 60% of the retail selling price. That means that an item that costs about $1.25 in China will wholesale in the US for $4 to $6 and will retail for $10.

Usually, you can sell an item for double its cost in China, and the retailer who purchases from you will sell it for three times your selling price to him. There is lots of room for everyone to make money.

The customer always pays the shipping costs, so that doesn�t enter into your profit equation, but even with that he will still make three times his money.

There is no reason that you should lose money on any export transaction. The customer always pays in full and in advance for the goods being purchased, and the shipping costs are normally collect to him so he pays that at the end. You NEVER spend your own money to purchase goods for anyone, hoping to be repaid later. That isn�t how the international import/export business works, unless you are buying for your own account, to ship back to your home country and sell in your own retail outlet.

The best place to buy consumer goods is in Guangzhou, at the wholesale markets. The prices are very low and almost anything is available. You can buy junk, but high-quality items are there in abundance.

You can go to places like YiWu, but it is more commoditised and so large you might only get lost. A single factory or wholesale market in YiWu will have more than 30,000 shops, and there are many factory markets in that city. The wholesale prices you would pay in places like Shanghai, Nanjing or Beijing are usually too high to justify for export, but there are exceptions.

Generally, you try to avoid products you don�t understand, or those where you are not competent to assess the quality. You can purchase samples and send these to your customer for approval, or you can find someone with product knowledge to assist you.

There are things you need to understand about shipping. First, ocean shipping is priced by volume rather than weight because a ship doesn�t care how heavy something is, but how much space it takes in a container. A 20 foot container is about 30 cubic metres in volume and costs about $2,500 to ship from China to North America or Europe. Smaller shipments (LCL � less than a container load) are priced by the cubic metre and range from US$50 to US$135, depending on the port of departure.

It is also possible to ship goods through the mail by EMS (Express Mail Service) by the Post Office. It isn�t really cheap, but the margins are high enough that it works well, and the shipment generally arrives in less than one week. I�ve shipped literally tons of goods through EMS over the years, including heavy items like bicycles and scooters, and it�s always been profitable even with the higher shipping cost.

Goods leaving China must pass through export customs. If you use EMS, the postal clerk will do the forms for you. If you have larger shipments, the easiest is to use a freight forwarding firm. There are many of these, some very large like Schenker, but many smaller ones as well. Their services aren�t terribly expensive, but are useful. You have your goods delivered to them, and the shipment appears at its destination a short time later. Saves a lot of trouble, though for the small volumes of jewelry you appear to be contemplating, EMS is likely the best.

You do not need an export license to purchase goods and ship them out of China. Anybody can do that, and they do it every day. You do not need a partnership with a Chinese export company, nor do you need to invest 200,000 RMB in anything. There is no reason whatever that you should pay commissions to anyone, nor to depend on others. There is no reason that you should be lied to or fleeced by anyone. I�ve been buying products in Guangzhou and YiWu for 20 years and I�ve never been cheated yet by any supplier. The people who have the kinds of troubles described in these posts are those with no experience and who are in over their heads.

Again, it is in fact as easy as it sounds, and countless people are doing it every day. It absolutely is NOT illegal in any way, and you don�t want to listen to someone who tells you otherwise. You do NOT need to be a licensed trading company, nor to establish one, nor to invest in one, nor to find a Chinese partner. You do of course declare the contents of every shipment of every kind in every country in the world, but the end purpose of the shipment is of no concern to the exporting country � whether it is a gift, or for trade, or personal consumption, or for making soup, is irrelevant. The importing country may be interested to know, but the exporting country definitely is not.

It is not true that there are �duties and taxes at both ends�. For most goods today, there are no duties of any kind, and there are almost never any export taxes � certainly not on consumer goods. Import taxes are your customer�s problem, but usually these are limited to a VAT or Federal Sales Tax and are small.

You needn�t worry about �attracting attention�. It�s a perfectly legal activity, engaged in by huge numbers of foreigners in China every day. There is nothing here that must be done under the radar. And you do not have to fumigate your jewelry (or anything else, in fact) to comply with safety standards.

Good luck to you.

.

[cj750]

[Steppenwolf]

Just one of those irksome real experiences with that icon of Chinese efficiency and reliability, the CHINA POST:
A parcel sent off from Guangzhou to a destination farther inland (distance some 700 kms as the bird flies) hasn't made it there in now four months.
This was a package containing printed matter worth some RMB 4000 (a further 1600 was held off for later dispatch), and though the sender kept a receipt subsequent enquiries as to the whereabouts o the said postal item hae been shrugged off by the POST. In essence they are claiming to be unable tyo track down the employee who mislaid the parcel (or more likely who diverted it to some black market channel).