Job Discussion Forums

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

As someone who works for the municipal government, I pay a number of different fees each month, including health insurance, pension, employment isurance and income tax. Of all of these, I've been told that apparently, paying into the pension scheme is NOT mandatory and a person can technically opt out.

This information was given to me by a person living here (who has a Japanese spouse) who apparently just approached the Board of Ed. and told them that they wouldn't be here at age 65 anyway, so to please stop making her pay into the pension system. All waht was required was filling out a form, and.. voila!

What I need to know is, IS this true.... and if so, WHERE can I find the article of law that says so. My BoE would possibly allow me to opt out, but not unless I showed them proof positive that it was permissible under Japanese law.

Any help on this??

Thx

Reisender · Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 45

I'd love to get a definitive answer on this too. I have a friend who opted out of pension payments and, as with your source, he and I both have Japanese spouses. Yet when I asked to do the same at my local office, I was told I could only get a refund once I'd left Japan. Mind you, the person who told me this also told me foreigners were not eligible to go on kokumin hoken.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Heh.. Dontcha just love misinformation? Smile

Yeh, just to clarify to everyone (in case it wasn't clear in my original post) I'm NOT talking about the pension refund you get upon leaving Japan... I'm talking about opting out of the pension system while still living here...

Reisender: I'm hoping someone here will know -- but I'm also pursuing this through other avenues so if I find something out, you'll be the first to know.

kdynamic · Joined: 05 Nov 2005 Posts: 562 Location: Japan

Hmmm from everything I have heard the way you do it is pay in and then get the refund after you leave. Never heard of anyone opting out. but if you do figure it out, let us know! I'm a municiple government worker too and I wish I could just keep the money instead of paying and then having to do all the paperwork to get it back.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Isn't it great that you pay into the pension fund for years and years and the only refund you get is 2.4 months and then they even tax that at 20%. Just to kick you in the teeth, Cdns DO NOT get that 20% back as part of a tax agreement between Japan and Canada.

Firestarter · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 55

2.4 months? Do you mean 2.4 years? I was under the impression you received 80% back, up to a maximum of a three year period, upon leaving Japan.......not true?

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

You get 1 month back for every year worked, to a maximum of 2.4 months. So if you work more than 3 years, you get nothing extra back. At least that is how it works at my school.

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Ok... It's understandable that I didn't get the answer I was looking for in this thread -- obviously not many people have heard of this.

I'm willing to do my own research into it, but does anyone have any idea where (which government office or department) I might start my inquiries about this? I really need to know what the law says about it -- and short of going to a lawyer, I'm hoping there's someone who holds the answers to my question. (I've gone to a lawyer in Japan -- it took a lot of time, and was annoying as hell because he insisted on speaking Japanese legalese -- which even the Japanese native-speakers in the room had trouble understanding)...

Zzonkmiles · Joined: 05 Apr 2003 Posts: 309

Brooks · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1369 Location: Sagamihara

Zzonk I thought you were American.
If so, if you stay only 3 years you will get back 80% of what you paid in and can get part of the rest back. But to get part of the tax back you have to apply for it after you leave.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Let's see what a quick Internet search provides.

For JET ALTs...
http://www.jetaasc.org/php/article.php?content=pension

For JET ALTs and non-JET people...
http://www.jetaany.org/_welcomeback.php

More...
http://berlitz.generalunion.org/socins.htm

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Yeah, Glenksi... That is indeed the standard answer... However this flies in the face of what apparently some people have somehow circumvented. My co-worker's friend who works for another BoE in my prefecture is married to a Japanese national, and somehow through this person managed to weasel out of paying into the pension scheme.

This leads me to one of several conclusions.

A) This person is lying.

B) This person doesn't actually know the WHOLE story and still pays into the sytem regardless.

C) This was a one-time (one-person only) exception done in-house at the BoE under-the-table just to sweep the situation under the rug.

D) There is a legitimiate claim/loophole that can be exploited.

Now, I sincerely don't believe A. There would be no reason for this person to lie about this. B is also unlikely as this person is married to a Japanese spouse AND their Japanese ability is decent enough to know the difference between paying and not paying.

This leaves options C and D. I think that both are possible/equally likely scenarios. Knowing Japan and the Japanese, quite often rules are "bent" in order to preserve the status quo. Who knows what happened? Maybe my co-worker's friend's spouse called the BoE and yelled at them and acted really irate? Maybe the BoE just wanted to make the problem go away fast. I can believe that.

But if the answer is D) and at least one other person on this thread seems to think that this is the case (based on their own knowledge of someone who's done it) then I would really like to know about it. I don't think I will be able to yield a correct answer doing an Internet search -- at least not in English... This is why I'm hoping to find what the word of the law says in Japanese... Perhaps there is an exclusionary clause that most people don't know how to invoke -- just like when applying for a work visa without a university degree. There IS an exclusionary provision but most people do not/cannot invoke it.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

SirZephyr · Joined: 06 Nov 2004 Posts: 8

I've been in Japan 13 years now, work for myself and have not paid into the scheme.

Problem here is I want to pay into the scheme as I'll probably be here till I'm 80+

Kind of wondering why nobody from city hall has tried to get me to pay yet...

I spose I better go and demand they take more taxes from me before I want to retire...

JimDunlop2 · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Posts: 2286 Location: Japan

Too interesting! I don't think I've ever met someone with the inverse problem. Smile

I'd think it would be a lot easier to opt IN than to opt OUT...