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periodista-masajista



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: do you have "excellent presentation?" Reply with quote

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-fi-mexhiring23oct23,1,456814.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

This article from the Oct 23 LA Times describes discriminatory hiring practices in Mexico. There's a discussion of US companies doing business in Mexico who have non-discriminatory practices written into company policy...but of course that's kind of hard to implement when the local culture has other standards.

Let the old, fat, dark and fertile beware!
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Polly0607



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know several people who work for American companies, especially in human resources. These companies in no way force their human resources staff to follow U.S. law or hiring practices.

Some of the international companies in my city are: Proctor and Gamble, Chrysler, Mattel, Nestle and General Motors.

I think the article is right when it says that these companies don't follow the law from their own countries because they don't have to. They do it because they can get away with it.

Pretty much all employers here ask for your picture on the resume, your age, your religion, where you live, who you live with, the names of several family members, whether you have a family member already working at the company, whether you have any children and their ages, your parents occupations, your debts, your medical history etc. etc.

American companies are no exception. Should they begin to set an example? What would push them to do such a thing?
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They only need to follow Mexican law. The problem in Mexico is enforcement. Anti-discrimination laws are on the books and while not the same as in the US or Canada, they either aren't enforced or I imagine bribery makes any problems go away.
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Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right on....there isn't many secrets in this country. I found that awkward at first. People come right out and ask what they want to know. Teachers from north of the border have to lose that "they can't ask me that" notion. The newspaper is full of ads specifying how young and beautiful you should be!
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a potential job applicant, I prefer to know ahead of time that I won't be hired because of my age, gender, religion, or shoe size instead of being led to believe that an employer doesn't discriminate in his hiring practices, going through the whole process of applying for a job, and then not getting hired because of one of the reasons mentioned above. Discriminatory hiring practices or not, at my age and with my experience and qualifications, I'm far more employable as a teacher in Mexico than in the USA.
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MikeySaid



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 509
Location: Torreon, Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polly0607 wrote:

Pretty much all employers here ask for your picture on the resume, your age, your religion, where you live, who you live with, the names of several family members, whether you have a family member already working at the company, whether you have any children and their ages, your parents occupations, your debts, your medical history etc. etc.


Whoa whoa whoa... my religion?

Is this the case at schools? Can anyone verify this? What worries me about the idea of being asked my religion... is that I don't have one, and I want to be employed at a private colegio (to start). In Mexico... can not being Catholic be a problem? I have previously given English classes (as a volunteer) at a private Adventist school in rural Queretaro... and I don't remember there being much inquiry into my religious background.

Is it a meritorcracy? Or are a lot of schools looking for a blonde-haired blue-eyed Catholic native speaker?
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, only religious schools will ask of your faith. Nobody else does. I think what Polly writes is bang on for Mexicans in other jobs, but not for schools.

Quote:
Is it a meritorcracy? Or are a lot of schools looking for a blonde-haired blue-eyed Catholic native speaker?


There's a fair bit of discrimination against Mexicans themselves, but not so much on race or skin color of foreigners.
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeySaid wrote:
Whoa whoa whoa... my religion?

Is this the case at schools? Can anyone verify this? What worries me about the idea of being asked my religion... is that I don't have one, and I want to be employed at a private colegio (to start). In Mexico... can not being Catholic be a problem?

If you want to teach at some Catholic schools, it can be a problem. I was turned down for two different jobs and told straight out that they would hire only Catholics.
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Samantha



Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 2038
Location: Mexican Riviera

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that happens here too. One of the largest and most prestigious private schools is Catholic. They hire a bilingual foreigner now and again, and that person best be Catholic.
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hlamb



Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 431
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was askd by a language school what my religious views were. I'm not Catholic or anything else, but consider myself to be tolerant towards all religions. I was surprised by the question, because I had just arrived in Mexico but answered honestly. I didn't get the job, but they also wanted someone with more experience (they told me that before the religious question came up).
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Polly0607



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I can confirm that this is a question on any standard job application as well as many questions you may be uncomfortable with.

I was asked all the questions that I posted above. I�m sure I missed some, I was trying to remember my job application when I got here three years ago.

This was from what some say is the most prestigious school in Mexico.
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FreddyM



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 180
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeySaid wrote:
[
Whoa whoa whoa... my religion?

Is this the case at schools? Can anyone verify this? What worries me about the idea of being asked my religion... is that I don't have one, and I want to be employed at a private colegio (to start). In Mexico... can not being Catholic be a problem? I have previously given English classes (as a volunteer) at a private Adventist school in rural Queretaro... and I don't remember there being much inquiry into my religious background.

Is it a meritorcracy? Or are a lot of schools looking for a blonde-haired blue-eyed Catholic native speaker?


I remember the round of application forms I went through about a year ago looking for a job. I think MOST of them asked about religion and marital status. And this was mostly private language schools, including the big names here in D.F. I ended up working at a Catholic school, and I'm still there. Although it is very conservative and they do ask your religion, it will not automatically rule you out for a position if you aren't Catholic. One of the people they hired for this year is not Catholic, but he has good qualifications and lots of experience, and is a foreigner....plus he's blond and blue-eyed to boot, so they overlooked the religion angle for him, particularly since he is not teaching religion classes, he's teaching English. I'm sure if you had all those qualifications however (lots of experience, good credentials, foreigner, native English speaker, blond, blue-eyed, AND Catholic), they'd snap you up in a heart beat.

I've heard that some other Catholic schools are not as strict as this one, most might ask your religion, but don't really care what particular religion you are, or even if you have any.

Like someone else said however, I think there is a fair amount of discrimination in this country along different dimensions, but it is particularly acute against Mexicans. I am in a unique position here because although I am a native English speaker, I don't fit the blond, blue-eyed profile, and am a Mexican native to boot. My college degrees, experience, and native speaking ability have given me a leg up over most Mexicans, but I lack the physical attributes to land those really plumb jobs most foreigners land.
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M@tt



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 473
Location: here and there

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but I lack the physical attributes to land those really plumb jobs most foreigners land.


are you talking about the mexico found between the US and guatemala?
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Ben Round de Bloc



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@tt wrote:
FreddyM wrote:
]but I lack the physical attributes to land those really plumb jobs most foreigners land.

are you talking about the mexico found between the US and guatemala?


M@tt, I wondered about that one, too. Shocked

FreddyM, what exactly is your definition of a plum job? I don't know of many foreign TEFL teachers who come to this country and land what I would consider plum jobs no matter what physical attributes they have.

In the part of the country where I live, the better TEFL jobs -- which I wouldn't consider very plum -- go to those who have qualifications and experience. The best jobs go to connected locals.
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saraswati



Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samantha wrote:
Yes, that happens here too. One of the largest and most prestigious private schools is Catholic. They hire a bilingual foreigner now and again, and that person best be Catholic.


Marital status is also important at some Catholic schools too. Many won't accept teachers who are divorced.
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