Job Discussion Forums

[cborg]

Hi there!
Can someone please tell me about the story of China VS Japan. Japan seems to offer better salaries and more time off or is the cost of living higher so it's all relative? China seems to offer so many jobs that I'm not sure why they're not offering better wages. Any edification on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Calories]

The Japanese have money. China is a cheap third world country.

[Shan-Shan]

Funny how so many foreigners, regardless of where they are teaching, still view countries through rosy TESL lenses.

Japan is a first world nation; China -- aside from pockets of rapid development -- still has people sleeping in holes and mud huts. That should answer why most wages -- the 250RMB an hour aside -- are nowhere near on par with Japan.

[Steppenwolf]

In Japan you will pay Japanese prices for your daily needed commodities; in China you pay very little for your basic needs.

And contrary to the myth that is permanently being warmed up, there aren't that many positions available in China; there are some FT-starved regions that will never see one because the powers-that-be don't want FTs in there. You won't be taken seriously as an FT anyway, so some schools get an FT attributed while the vast majority don't. Market forces are not very powerful in deciding your salary. Where the market forces are allowed to play it's language mills that offer the highest pay but these employers are also the most unscrupulous and unprofessional.

[brsmith15]

My daughter is teaching English in Japan. Salary? $3,000 a month. That's US $. She has her own new car, a nice apt, and is saving quite a bit.

If she came here to China, she might expect around $600 a month and more hours.

[Calories]

They really have fewer hours in Japan? I work 13 maybe 14 hours a week here in China. I thought that was normal.

[Shan-Shan]

There seems to be an abundant number of positions -- from advertisements, to people asking me if I know of anyone who can fill such and such a post.

Why China would be overwhelmed with FTs when the pay is only one fourth to one fifth of Japan is unusual, one fourth to that of Korea, is mindboggling. Is there really such a high number of western folk wanting to go to Taiwan, Japan, Korea and China to teach ESL?

Wait, in China positions may be becoming rare because unlike the other countries in the region, Chinese schools accept non-native, non-degreed and inexperienced teachers into their ranks. I suppose then that China is a haven for un-FTs acting as FTs.

As for talk about "being taken seriously", if you know your material, and can teach, you will be respected. I've given some talks on SLA theory and practice, and have received appreciation for sharing with other teachers what I have studied and experienced in the ESL classroom.

Don't expect a marching band to follow you around. However, if you can prove that you should be taken seriously, many people will do just that.


Regarding Japan, I've had several acquaintances go there without TESL training or experience who have earned around $3000CDN for 20 to 25 hours of Adult Conversational English per week. All saved much more than $1000CDN per month. And the months included weekend travels and eating out -- not living off Sapporo Ichiban and water in little closet homes.

It blows my mind why people come to China to instruct little twerps for the same number (actually more when you factor in report cards, office hours, extra-curricular "fun" activities) of hours per week, larger class sizes, and with less than $1000CDN month compensation.

[dajiang]

Hmm, id like to try Japan later on. but for now im having way too much fun here in China.

I suppose thats why im still here: it's fun.

and id advise anyone not to go after the money, but other more important things. anyway, do what you want.

[prof]

[fluffyhamster]

I've lived in both countries. Here's some reasonably detailed information and general advice that I gave somebody a while ago, hope it helps!
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=21878

[prof]

Fluffy, in that post you wrote that:

[fluffyhamster]

Prof, it's been a while since I worked in China, so my information could be somewhat out of date, but from what I've read on these forums, the information I've provided still seems pretty accurate. Good for you though if you've genuinely found something that more than meets your basic needs and also allows you to indulge what seems to be almost a passion for looking down on mere mortal ELTers.

[Steppenwolf]

[No Moss]

[prof]