Job Discussion Forums

[naturegirl321]

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=26694

See this topic, might be useful for some of you, though you have to commit three years.

[sethness]

NatureGirl, that link's broken.

Would this mean that the position has been filled, and the offer no longer appears here at DavesESLCafe, or are we just looking at a typo in your hyperlink?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[naturegirl321]

It means that they deleted the link.

[sethness]

I'm confused about why you'd post about a program in MAINLAND CHINA, when you're in the VIET NAM thread?

[naturegirl321]

It has programmes to China, Vietnam, Tibet, Cambodia, Laos, and Mongolia

[sethness]

Is that so ? I followed the link, but didn't see any country except China listed....which would make that link inappropriate in the VietNam area. I'm sure that the moderators wouldn't want to see a trend of country Z's conversations cropping up in country A's area, and vice versa. That gets very messy, confusing, and rewards only the rule-breakers.

Perhaps, then, you should fix your link so that it leads directly to the Vietnam program SPECIFICALLY. Please.

----------
EDIT:
I was too cynical. The site's NOT just about China, despite the URL name (ELIC.org = English Language Institute in CHINA).

Here's the right URL to go straight to the VietNam part:
http://www.elic.org/countries/vietnam.asp

[sethness]

On the other hand, there are some uncomfortable surprises in the site.
For example, in the "requirements" section, there's this:

RELIGION:
"Committed Christian: The University Teaching Program sends committed Christians."

That's the only mention of religion on the site, but it's a strong statement that makes me wonder what the mission of the organization is, and who's running it.

So, is ELICE an evangelical program, seeking to spread Christianity in Communist countries? Isn't that antithetical, since Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses"? Why is the program not open to non-Christians? Why is the program focusing on Christians, which implies a desire to alter the Vietnamese culture that it claims to respect? Why is the "must be a committed Christian" part a requirement?

...or this page, about the "costs/benefits":
http://www.elic.org/countries/vietnamcost.asp

"ELIC teachers are required to raise their own financial support to serve overseas. As a part of your support-raising package, you will receive a number of benefits. ELIC's all-inclusive financial profile ensures that all of your needs are met. Actual costs for the services listed below are higher than the amount ELIC teachers are required to raise. ELIC is able to offset those costs through significant donations from friends and foundations. Contact us to find out more about the specific costs for Vietnam.

...

Monthly Personal Allowance
You will be provided with a small monthly stipend from your host institution, which is designed to cover food and sundries. "

..and this page from the FAQ:
"FREE"?

Is this a paid position?
ELIC teachers raise their own financial support to serve overseas.

...So when you say "free", you don't mean "free". In fact, the person is investing large amounts of their own money while essentially volunteering at what is ordinarily a $14~20-an-hour teaching job, while being compensated with daily pocket money and a Master's at the end of 2 years.

Call me silly, but that's not "free". That financial loss is a large trade-off.

And, what does the literature mean when it says "serve"? Serve the Vietnamese (in a way that respects their culture and religion), serve a god, serve a religion, serve an English school, or what?

[sethness]

I found another two references to religion on the site.
From the top page:
ELIC is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to sending Christian NORTH AMERICANS to serve the people of China, Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar with their LANGUAGE, HEARTS AND LIVES.

From the "tell a friend/ put up a poster" section,
http://www.elic.org/tell/hang.asp

These posters will tell others about this strategic opportunity to teach English and impact lives in Asia. Request a handful and place them around your community in the following places:

# Christian college campuses
# Christian bookstores
# Etc.

(the poster is a Christian quotation about "The Beatitudes".)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatitudes

-------------
However, there's no explanation about the "Christian" part, in the FAQ or "About ELIC" pages.

If this is about selling a religion in a communist country, you're not "serving" the Vietnamese; rather, you're trying to erase local culture by replacing it with your own culture. That's ethnocentric, disrespectful and condescending.

You may also be putting the volunteer evangelists at risk from the government, depending on how the government feels about you selling your religion on their turf. I'm assuming that the Communist countries covered by your ELICE.org (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China) will take a very dim view of evangelism. Communism is Marxist; Marx said that "religion is the opiate of the masses".

[sethness]

Anyone who applies for this program-- or has any other plans to do religious evangelism in Vietnam-- should probably do some hefty research before coming to VN.

In Vietnam evangelism is, openly or indirectly, clearly going to get one into serious trouble with the government.

Interesting links about the VN government and religious evangelism:

[link]http://www.religioustolerance.org/news_00jan.htm[/link]

[Snaff]

Generally speaking in this world:


Most things that are "free" in life are.....garbage.


And when you break it down.....it ain't free.


The most hypocritical and dishonest people I've come across in this world (of all nationalities) were "religious people" selling.....you guessed it: religion.


Xtians tend to be the worst: they sell their garbage can religion like a set of encyclopedias not only door-to-door domestically, but in foreign countries of which they know nothing of the people, culture, history, and language.


If it sounds to good to be true....it probably is.


Even for a fake wannabe Xtian who'd fall for this dung.

[ChuckECheese]

[sethness]

[Snaff]

[sethness]

Well, I think David Koresh probably believed in what he was selling.

As for Jimmy Swaggart-- he was doing $2 hookers while televangelising, and didn't confess til he was caught. The gay televangelist, too-- what was his name? Jim Haggerd or something like that? -- preached about homosexuality being a horrific sin, held himself up as a shining example, and quietly slept with gay hookers on the side.

I think those examples of televangelists are shining examples of lie-to-make-a-buck, not honest belief.

-------
re: what7s the diff between selling/believing in a religion,or selling/believing in something else:

Well, I generally agree with you, but I like to refer to Douglas Adams' quote on the subject. He says that he turned Atheist when he realized that the quality of proofs offered by religion are farcical compared to the rigorous proofs required by almost any other subject.

"There's a god because the book says so, I say so, and you father said so"-- stuff like that just wouldn't cut it in any setting but religion-- so why give'em the benefit of dignity that their quality of proof doesn't merit?

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

Let's get back on topic, please. Otherwise, the thread will no longer be available.