Job Discussion Forums

[goldstar]

My Z visa will expire on August 28, but my residence permit is valid until October 9. My boss has explained to me that she'll get a new visa and permit in early October for me. I protested and said I was worried about this, so she called up the PSB and explained the situation, they told her that the visa in your passport gets you into the counrty, and as soon as it is stamped, it is void. He said the green resident book acts as your internal visa and is what you really need.

Adding to the intrigue, I am taking a plane to Yunnan for a short vacation, and won't be back until after August 28, that is, more than one year after I entered China on that visa. So maybe my vacation will end in an airport detention room.

Any thoughts?

[Roger]

Sorry, Goldstar, burt you must use your instinct in this case, which seems to be telling you the right thing: Your visa alone decides how long you can legally live in China.
Come 28 August, you must get an extension or a new visa. An extension is usually a stopgap solution available to tourists. It allows you up to 30 days of staying longer. A new work visa would require you to undergo a new medical exam. These things should be done before the end of this month.
If you overstay your VISA (not your residence permit), you are liable to pay a fine of 500 RMB per day.

[goldstar]

I've also heard about the 500rmb a day fine. But is this a rumor or what? Has anybody had to pay this fine? Where is this regulation written down? I know a guy who left a day after his visa expired without a penalty. Also, if you paid or know of somebody who paid for the fine, were their residence books still valid?

[JamesD]

[Roger]

A most interesting reply! In fact, this question has been debated here a number of times over the years. To me, it is a new phenomenon that some expats have incongruent documentation. What it means is that someone has been a bit sloppy.
Why do they issue one-year work visas if you only need approx. one month to enter the country and get your residence permit and work permit?
Have you ever left the country (exit to Hong Kong for example) with an expired work visa but a valid residence permit? I guess, not! Try, and see what the Shenzhen PSB will do to you - I am not prophesying. I am really and genuinely curious.
My last work visa expired on first of August, same date as in my residence permit, which I had to surrender before the last school day.

I suppose, some administrations are careless in issueing residence permits that cover a period longer than the visa duration. Perhaps visas get extended for the purpose of obtaining a new work visa so the holder of the passport does not need to pay a fine for the time he spent without a valid visa.
Perhaps you have a single-entry visa. I have always had multiple-entry visas. I simply cannot imagine anyone crossing the Guangdong-HOng Kong border with an expired visa without serious hassles on the Shenzhen side!
We all are to some degree in the dark, but the issue of visa validity should pose no intellectual challenge: expiry means you must have left the country. Or it is a special local deal.

[JamesD]

Wires must be crossed somewhere or maybe it is just a lax attitude. My current Z visa has been out of date for a while. Several times I have had to go out of town and check into a hotel, they look at my passport and then ask for my green book. They check the date there and no problem.

The visa in my passport right now was issued September 19 and expired November 30.........of 2001. Since then I've had my resident permit renewed whenever necessary, so technically I haven't had a visa for almost two years. Last year I went to the states so the FAO took my passport and green book to the local boys in blue (gray?), they just put a stamp on the old visa and I got back in with no problem through Beijing. Also, because I was coming back in they didn't take my green book when I left through Beijing so I still have the original.

[arioch36]

Residence Permit is locality specific, allows you to stay at a specfic address. Now I lived at three different addresses with the same residence permit. But hey...I was illegal, and I do know of foreign teachers busted for that (Their school bailed them out) So should I say, becuase I got away with it, they it is okay? When I taught at my 2nd and 3rd school, I never got a letter of release from my previous schools. So should I get on this forum and say..,"hey, you don't need to get a letter of release?"

James...there is a difference between what people often get away with, and what the rules are. I mean, I have my green residence permit from my first stint in China, though the permit clearly says it should have been taken at the airport. So when you say.. "I shenme shenme", it doesn't mean that's what the rules are. Just like driving over the speed limit, usually you don't get busted. I have found China's security to be the most lax of any country I have evr been to. Is that going to chang in the future? Probably, especially as their customs becomes more modernized

According to the NYCity consulate and the Zhengzhou (Henan) educational bureau... technically you need to have three current documents; visa, residence permit, and expert certificate. Now we all know many people work here illegally. I know some that get busted, but unlike the INS (US), they don't spend months in jail waiting for deportation. Some people say the hotels only look at my residence permit. This is true enough. Does that mean you are not legally required to have a current visa? Absolutely not. In the US I have almost never been asked to show my social security card, or my deed to my house, or my birth certificate. Driver liscence is what is used. I have never actually used my expert certifcate because my FAO's have always taken care of currency exchange. Does this mean I don't need it?

The 500 RMB fine I have quoted in the past comes , again, from the Henan waiban's office. This can be for an expired visa, or an expired residence permit. Has anyone actually paid this fine? I really don't know. I know people who have had problems with it, such as one who was not allowed to board his plane, until the school came and did something. Did money pass hands? Don't know

I know for other teachers with such problems, the school and the local bureaus try to do some fancy paperwork stuff. Last semester, with SARS, some teachers left with just a letter from the Waiban office

[goldstar]

Thats where I got my information about the matter, the Zhengzhou PSB (seems like half my students are rich cop's kids).

Cleary, Chinese enforcement and interpretation of regulations varies from place to place. For example, in America at the NY Chinese consulate you need medical paperwork for the visa, in LA you don't. In Henan it seems to vary from person to person. I'm probably running some risk because I'm traveling to another province which may have different standards. Henan is admittedly not a model of efficency and following the letter of the law. But what can I do when the PSB has told me that it is not necessary? Maybe the date in my res permit is a fluke, but its there, the PSB told me to come back in October. (Or perhaps they just wanted to finish drinking their tea) [/quote]

[arioch36]

Last year in Zhengzhou my first school messed up on my residence permit...all the while telling me it was fine. My second school couldn't get me a legal permit without me (them) paying 500 per day fine. I left for Shanghai to the US (where I gained 20 lbs this summer) on meesed up documents. But the authorities in Henan/ my school said don't worry don't worry, because your permit has been stamped by the public buraue

(personally I doubt whther the PSB stamped it, but who can tell)

They said , oh you're fine. But I insisted that the college and the Henan waiban give me stamped letters explaining the situation. They balked, but finally said okay.

When I got to Shanghai, I would have been screwed without the additional letters, and even then security had to fetch their boss to decide if it was okay to let me go home.