Job Discussion Forums

[kololam77]

Thanks so much for all of the responses.

I find it interesting that such fundamentalistic and narrow conclusions were drawn re: my intentions for coming to China based on my first post.

Nothing within its (the post) contents even remotely suggested that my first priority for coming to China was to "convert the heathen". The post was merely to discover from first hand accounts what the state of religious freedom is like currently in various parts of China. The mere suggestion that all Christians are coming to China in a "Bob Jones" like fashion with similar intentions - well - is as simple minded as some Bob Jones representatives themselves and the evangelization methodology they employ.

[Lobster]

Kololam, I wasn't drawing any conclusions about your intentions, but my experience with those who are outspoken about religious beliefs is that they are indeed here to initiate some religious conversion among the locals. You weren't exactly clear about your intent, so I mentioned several possibilities.

You were asking what to expect, and I'm telling you straight out. Keep your beliefs to yourself here and you won't have any problems. If you want to be involved in a "fellowship" with the locals, you may open a can of worms.

Do you have any idea of how many faith-based organizations covertly send people here as teachers to convert people they consider "heathens"? Well, I do because I live here and I've met them. These cultists are ready to practice all kinds of deceit to achieve their goals. Their Christianity is an aggressive religion.

You apparently don't understand the sarcasm implied by my use of the word "heathen", which was the word my dear late grandfather used when others asked about my family's religious persuasion.

For people who want to quietly follow their faith, religious freedom is not an issue in China, and the slightest bit of research would tell you that. So, maybe spreading the word is not your first priority, but does that imply that it's still on your list? I truly hope not.

Certainly not all Christians in China are of the Bob Jones ilk, but those who are arouse a deep feeling of mistrust and antipathy in those of us who don't fancy additional scrutiny or ill-will on the authorities' part while we try to do our jobs. Many of the FTs I meet here enjoy China so much because it's mostly free of the dominant religious hypocrisy of many western nations, and we'd like to see it stay that way.

RED

[WordUp]

Christianity appears to be blossoming from what I have experienced. The churches I have visited in Hangzhou and Shanghai are often filled to capacity and more college students seem to be attending. I have been invited by several of my students to join them.

The church where I attend is small and conducted in the local dialect, not in Mandarin, which technically does not matter greatly as I am still working on honing my language skills.

What is not allowed is to attempt to convert folks by any organized means but you can certainly and freely discuss your beliefs if asked, and you can ask the questions in informal settings e.g. over dinner just not in the classroom.

I'd avoid any discussion on the Falun Gong however.

[Noelle]

What an interesting discussion.

I also went to China with an agenda to "preach" if you will. I've never been close to the "Bob Jones" type though.

I feel like certain parts of China are becoming more open but it's important to remember that by doing something as seemingly innocent as inviting a Chinese friend to church (especially a service with foreigners) you could be putting that person at risk.

I was very active at my church in Hangzhou (for foreigners) and always found a way to promote my lifestyle among the Chinese locals who were not allowed to attend church with me. I also managed to discreetly share my beliefs in a classroom full of university students who were wide eyed and facinated about why my boyfriend was doing missions work in Kenya while I was in China "teaching".

I think that Christians in China should always remember that actions speak louder than words. There are ways to incorporate scripture into teaching if you are tactful and respectful of the school's policies and the Chinese laws, but the lifestyle really does reveal a lot in a country of over 4 billion where so many have never heard the simplest message of hope.

[Leon Purvis]

[Noelle]

Nice comeback L.P.
Forgive my mistake if you truly did "count" 1.3 billion. I was only going by what students in China told me 2 years ago. Guess they had a shrink in population since 04.

No, I don't think they need to learn to honor their parents or be taught not to steal because we all know that cheating and copywriting, piracy and plagarism are not really like stealing... I mean ... not really.

I'm sorry, but what is so confusing about asserting that there may actually only be ONE GOD? I can see the cultural resistance to such a notion and I understand that Buddhism allows for many different beliefs in this area but really... I never met a Chinese person who couldn't get their head around the idea. It often came up when they spewed out the phrase "oh my God" (singular) in class.

Finally, before this discussion gets bumped into another forum, teaching simple principles derived from scripture is as easy as giving the students a short history lesson in how a nation was developed... my nation at least. I don't know which part of the western world you come from. Believe it or not, students actually are interested in what the Bible has to say about life and death... can't imagine why...

[danielb]

So kololam77, it may not be your �first priority� but would you try to convert a few?

Noelle, did you convert any?

Just interested.

[Leon Purvis]

[kev7161]

I think that if someone asks you about your religious beliefs or your faith in god, then by all means, strike up a conversation with that person and have a good time. However, what I really, really hate is when a believer approaches me (or anyone) and wants to initiate that sort of conversation. As an atheist, I certainly don't run around shouting "god is dead! god is dead! Prayer is foolish!", etc. If someone were to ask me if I believe in god, I just say no, then move onto other conversation topics. I don't try to sway someone's beliefs or their life outlooks . . . heck, I rarely even debate politics. To each their own and amen to that, but coming to China (or anywhere) to "spread the word" really gets my goat.

[tw]

[kololam77]

So the issue re: religious freedom in China is not so clear after all. We have non Christians saying they enjoy the lack of Western-style religion in China, that the Chinese government prints bibles but restricts the imports of bibles, the Catholic Church can exist but cannot have ties to Rome, etc. We have Christians stating that you cannot invite a Chinese person to church and cannot easily express your faith in public areas.

The question seems to be is the Chinese government vehemently against religious expression as we in the west have come to understand it, or are they simply attempting to legislate a brand of religion (Christianity for example) that is distinctly Chinese - i.e. The Three Self Patriotic Movement?

In reference to Danielle (pardon me if I spelled your name incorrectly) - "convert" is a word I hesitate to use. I am a Christian and share my faith in word and deed to the best of my ability on a daily basis. Nevertheless.....I believe it is also important to be culturally consistent and sensitive (Jesus was) and attempt to find ways that are within the parameters of where I am to share what I believe. Romans 13 reminds us that all governing authorities are under God`s dominion and that there is little (if any reason) to fight against the government for personal, religious purposes. Therefore....I have shared my faith with many people and as a result some have become believers and followers of Jesus Christ.

My intentions for wanting to go to China.....to learn the language, to experience the culture, to learn about new people and places, and to share my faith when the time is right, when it is culturally appropriate in ways not offensive to those around me, and to trust God is providentially controlling the entire process.

This is my last word since this discussion will more than likely either be removed or bumped to another forum.

Kololam77

[Leon Purvis]

tw,

I think that the students who asked you the difference between Catholicism and Christianity were probably taught by a bible thumper. I spent fifteen years living in the American Bible Belt, and this distinction is made by the evangelical fundamentalist sects of Christianity. It is often argued by the evangelicals that Catholicism is not Christianity when, in fact, it a a sect of Christianity.

The history book from which I teach was supplied by my public school, and it clearly delineates the major protestant sects from the Catholic sect, but it does not identify Catholicism sect as nonChristian. We have a couple of bible thumping English teachers in my city who proselytize with impunity, and they fill the kids' heads up with this sort of thing. Whenever I meet students from their college, the conversation often turns to religion and this question comes up. My answer is that Catholicism is a brand of Christianity and leave it at that.

[brsmith15]

Anyone.....anyone.....who feels they must try and foist their religion, beliefs, or philosophy off on others simply isn't confident about what they do believe. Fundamentalists of any calling are simply pains in the butt and can only speak to the weak who'll follow anything: Bob Jones, Manson, Branch Davidanians, the comet loonies, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons.

It's these poor saps who need others around them of the same beliefs so they can feel justified about their own. Just a bunch a lost sheep.

Does the Dalai Lama go around trying to convert folks to Tibetan Buddhism? Not!

[patsy]

Don't you guys think a lot of people feign an interest in religion just to speak or study some more english for free?

[cj750]