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stgeorge
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 26
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:19 pm Post subject: Two years teaching abroad is more than enough |
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On my return to England I found that my experiences of teaching in Asia were looked on favourably by employers making it easier to find a decent job than when I left. However, at times it was difficult to convince employers that I really had put the teaching and travel thing behind me and was now serious about developing a career in England.
I personally think the optimal time to spend teaching abroad is one year. Two years you'd get away with but any more than that would have a detrimental impact on your future career at home.
What are other people's experiences of developing a new career on a return from teaching abroad? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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If you really believe that the dichotomy "home-abroad" is REAL, then you should not get into this business !
And for sure many employers in the Yookay will look askance at any experience outwith Her Majesty's Realms. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:51 am Post subject: |
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[quote="scot47"]If you really believe that the dichotomy "home-abroad" is REAL, then you should not get into this business !quote]
I'm not sure what you mean about "home-abroad" Unless it's going home after being abroad. 
BUt I think that after living abroad for almost two years, I'd like to continue to do so. It really chances you and how you look at things.
Play up your abroad experience and tell your employeers how much you learned about the other culture. I agree that living abroad is a valuable experience. |
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MonkeyKing
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 96
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Well, if you're changing careers, you usually have to start at or near the bottom anyway. And, if you have little idea of what you ultimately want to do, it's going to be even more difficult.
I think moving from EFL to other jobs you can emphasise stuff like adaptability and team work, because you will have been working with people from a wide variety of backgrounds in different situations...also time-management and resourcefulness, just think of all the times you've been thrown in at the deep end and left to sink or swim.
Anyway, I just returned to the UK after two and a half years teaching abroad straight from university. I have landed a temp' job pretty easily, but I have yet to find out exactly how most employers will view my EFL experience, so the above is just speculation....and well, I suppose, if nothing concrete turns up, I can always get back into EFL...  |
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stgeorge
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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scot47 i think you're completely wrong. the overwhelming majority of "yookay" graduate employers will look favourably on someone with one or two years experience working abroad. some international companies will even expect it and have a section of the application form saying "please detail travel and experience working abroad" or the like.
naturegirl321 living abroad may change the way you look at things but doing it for more than 2 years will also change the way employers back home look at you. rather than being a graduate who has taken a gap year (or 2) you'll be seen as an esl teacher who now wants a change of career so it'd be difficult to get a fast track high paying graduate job.
i also spent about 2 years teaching in asia and it was a great experience but i'm glad i got out when i did. i remember meeting people in taiwan and thailand who have been out there for so long they don't have any choice but to teach so they just drift around the world from job to job earning a fraction of what their peers in their home countries earn. not the life for me. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:04 pm Post subject: The UK of GB & NI |
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When talking off employers in the Yookay, I meant schools and education authorities.
I assume that you are not a teacher but one of those who played at it for a year before returning to Perfidiuous Albion where you are now selling insurance or Big Macs.
Some of us are professional teachers.
I am pleased that you are happily settled in Blair's Disunited Kingdom, a country where a doctor can murder 230 patients before anyone notices. Give me the Real Third World anytime.
Last edited by scot47 on Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Stgeorge,
I have changed living abroad. And have no disire to go into the corporate, suits world in the States, I intend to live abroad forever. |
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Wolf
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| naturegirl321 wrote: |
Stgeorge,
I have changed living abroad. And have no disire to go into the corporate, suits world in the States, I intend to live abroad forever. |
Amen. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I have changed living abroad. And have no disire to go into the corporate, suits world in the States, I intend to live abroad forever. |
I think your approach is spot-on, and I agree about how positive and life changing it is to work abroad. But surely, some sort of negotiation or middle ground can be made to bridge the 'home-abroad' gap. On one hand, you have a fairly large sized camp of people back in the West who haven't worked or travelled outside. This is despite the shrinking global village, and the relative ease to work globally. Some of these people who haven't been outside of the West are employers, and they may judge negatively on those who have. Those who've worked abroad for a long time are often viewed as 'teaching-travel nomads', 'drop outs', 'people who haven't settled down yet', etc. It's upsetting to get labelled as such, because it's not reality. Reality is that you change a lot overseas, you develop resourcefulness and cross-cultural skills, you enlarge your worldview, and you make a positive contribution to others.
On the other hand, maybe a response to the first camp, are the people living abroad for an extended time who slam the 'homebodies' equally hard. Those in careers and family back home are judged as dreadfully boring, tied into the corporate life, limited in their worldview, etc. It may not be fair to paint everyone with the same brush - there are those who've grown and changed, developed cross-cultural skills, etc. without having to leave the West. My home town of Vancouver, Canada is a great example in that it's always been multi-cultural.
The irony in my case is that I really enjoy working in Asia, and I find the people I've met to be fantastic in the countries I've taught. I'd like to stay here for some time. However, I've always felt 'out of place' in the West, like I don't belong. As long as I can remember, it was hard to fit in, and I just couldn't reconcile Western cultural beliefs with my own. This was ages before I ever worked abroad, that I felt excluded and like a foreigner in my own culture. Whenever I go back for visits, etc. reverse culture shock hits like a ton of bricks, and I feel at home when I return to Asia. I really enjoy making a contribution to society and people here.
But I've always wanted to do teach and to influence / serve people and culture back home, yet felt totally and completely at a loss as to how to do it. In the Western view, education is not valued for the most part, and most people just want to be entertained as individuals. Teachers in the traditional sense are not looked on very favorably. The Western role of teachers views them more like marketing tools, i.e. part of the consumer culture of education. Education is like a commodity, to be consumed for individual pleasure. This is contrasted to the respect, status, and influence that teachers still have in many Asian countries, although the media and global competitive pressures are changing this view of education. But ironically, I'm doing what I've always wanted to, but in a different part of the world.
Eventually, to bridge this gap, I'd like to get a teaching certification that qualifies me to work in an international school and takes advantage of the subject I majored in university. Other options would be working in ESL schools that cater to Asian immigrants or doing IELTS work, possibly examining. Textbook and curriculum development is a a possibility as well, same with choosing the teacher training route. All of these would have some of mixed cultural interaction in the job.
Even right now, things are going quite well, in that there's a balance of working with both local students and mostly Western colleagues that are part of the teaching and learning team.
Steve |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Struelle,
I think that you are correct, in the the labels work both ways, I kow that I'm guilty of thinking that peoeple back home are a bit boring and I know that they think I'm trying to escape and don't want to settle down. |
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stgeorge
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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there's not really a serious career route for an esl teacher. you teach english for 10 years then what? where's the career progression, salary increases, increased holiday entitlement, pension etc? what do you do when you're 50 and see 22 year olds with no experience walking into jobs that you're considered too old for? i'd be interested to hear from someone who has actually made a long term career from esl teaching.
also you can live in an asian country but you can never really be part of that society. you'll always be the white foreigner with no prospects outside the esl world. and the longer you stay there the more you see and hear and learn and the less ideal the society will seem. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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There is no such thing as a safe job anywhere. Some years back people thought if they got a governement job (ie Civil Servioce in UK-speak) or worked for one of the big multi-nationals they had a place for life.
The corporate world does not work that way anymore.
I am quite pleased with my lot in life. Nearing 60 I still teach EFL for a living. I am married with two kids in school. I own two houses. No great savings but life is okay.
You really want to live and work in a country that produced Dr Shipman ? |
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dyak
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 630
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Moreover, do people really do EFL teaching because it looks good on their resum�/CV? I guess there are a few but why?
Personally I can think of nothing worse than having to return to the most over-priced and culturally deprived island in Europe to get a 'safe' job.
It's a big ol' world out there... |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:44 am Post subject: Dichotomies |
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Some people really enjoy teaching "abroad" and never go back "home".
Personally I would no more think of working and living in my native land than of emigrating to the Planet Tralfamador.
Some people try EFL work in a different country and cannot wait to get back to Kansas or Wigan or Kangaroo's @rsehole or wherever they think home is.
To continue thinking that there are only two places in the universe HOME and ABROAD seems to me to be a strange way to look at the universe.
Rather like those Yanks who think there is the USofA and Everywhere Else.
Or those who believe there is ENGLAND and THE REST OF THE WORLD
I would expect a bit more sophistication of.......people working in an international context.
Last edited by scot47 on Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that you are correct, in the the labels work both ways, I kow that I'm guilty of thinking that peoeple back home are a bit boring and I know that they think I'm trying to escape and don't want to settle down. |
They can think this if they want, it's no big deal really. I find it most encouraging to hang out with those colleagues who share the same outlook on the positives of living abroad. When people confidently and unashamedly tell stories how they've spent a year or two in this place, then moved to another place , etc. it's motivating.
Also motivating is to read TEFL stories, and join TEFL boards or discussion groups (like Dave's hehe) with people of many backgrounds and experiences who enjoy this profession and lifestyle. EFL isn't for everyone. Some people knock it, others have a ball.
[quote=stgeorge]there's not really a serious career route for an esl teacher. you teach english for 10 years then what?[/quote]
It can be a serious career if you want it to. Some of the teacher trainers on the CELTA course, for example, started out doing the travel and teach thing. Eventually they became certified and chose the teacher training route. Some EFL teachers go into IETLS work, and/or get involved with the British Council. There's also the option of working in international schools, or using TEFL overseas as teaching experience for Masters Degrees.
TEFL isn't going to bring in the big bucks, but then again, there's a lot more flexibility in the career path. If you want to hop around the world and teach in different countries, you can do that. If you want to stay in one place and settle down into a more stable career path, you can do that too. I've talked to people who've spent over 10 years doing TEFL in Bangkok. Now that is an accomplishment!
[quote=scot47] I am quite pleased with my lot in life. Nearing 60 I still teach EFL for a living. I am married with two kids in school. I own two houses. No great savings but life is okay[/quote].
Now this is the way to do it! Still doing the EFL thing at 60, with a wife and kids and a couple houses. Sounds like a great juxtaposition of lifestyles! Are you living abroad, as well? I met an American in Bangkok who's in his 40's, teaching EFL in a primary school and married to a Burmese wife with a kid. This tops it.
Steve |
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