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[Capergirl]

I have been reading a lot of posts lately on other chat forums in which people have expressed their disdain for various cultural practices in non-Western parts of the globe. It would appear that many of us Westerners see ourselves as more humane - or at the very least, less barbaric - than our Eastern counterparts. I will admit that I do not like hearing stories of genital mutilation, stonings, dismemberments, floggings, etc. in some countries, although I feel I'm pretty tolerant of other cultural practices and ideologies.

Truth be told, I have at times enjoyed telling my fellow Canadians (the ones who have never left their back doorsteps) stories about some of the traditions, customs, and general accepted norms of the other countries I have lived in because the typical reaction is one of total and utter repugnance (and an air of superiority along with it). It is indeed amusing. "Don't they eat dogs in South Korea?", people have asked me. Well, yeah, some do...and some Canadians eat moose. I have told people that in Taiwan, interestingly enough, ambulances don't pick up dead bodies at accident scenes. People are always aghast when I tell them that one. But when you really think about it, what sense does it make to lug a corpse to the hospital? It seems that "we" are so sure that our way is the right way (the only way), that we (Westerners on the whole) have become (or perhaps have always been) very narrow-minded and myopic.

The really strange thing is that I've noticed that my foreign students (from China, Angola, and the UAE, respectively) have come to Canada with not only a lot of knowledge about North American culture, but also an acceptance of all things Western - no matter how different from their own culture. Where is our tolerance for other cultures? (Please note that my general use of the pronoun "we" does not intend to include all Westerners, just the general majority. )

[guest of Japan]

Well said.

[SweetOne]

It might be, NatureGirl, that the ones that have the courage and openmindedness to come to the West are similar to you, in that they are openminded already. I have noticed that those who travel (save the ones in tour groups) tend to be accepting of other cultures. Those that don't travel (be they Asian, North American - or as you say Western - and even Arabic) are skeptical of others. So, it would seem that it is not that "they" are more openminded and accepting of "us" but rather, those you meet, because they travel, seem so much so. As do you when you go there.

[wix]

good post. It dismays to see that people, who are willing to travel to the other side of the world to live and work, still expect everything to be the same as at home and complain very loudly when it isn't.

No culture is perfect. Every culture has things that are good and bad, but for the most part different cultures are just that -- different!!!

[Jess_Laoshi]

Asians have been exposed to Western culture a lot more than Westerners have been to Asian culture. You can come from a country like China, or Japan to America and have some idea of what to expect. Most Westerners who go to Asia (as well as those who don't!) have absolutely no accurate concept of the place or the people unless they've specifically studied up on Asian subjects. In general though, the West makes zero effort to educate itself about the East, and it shows. For the most part, Westerners are simply astonishingly ignorant about histories and cultures outside of our own. Chinese students have to study American history, for example. I don't remember learning a single thing about China until I chose myself.

[Cleopatra]

I completely agree with you, Capergirl.

It amazes me the number of people who choose of their own free will to come and live in another country, and yet still cannot accept that they are in a different culture.

That attitude is endemic here in the Gulf. Ex-pats here have salaries and lifestyles they could never even dream about at home - maids, swimming pools, short working hours etc - and yet still endlessly moan about life here. Only a small minority make the effort to see things from the Arab point of view. Of course, there is plenty to disagree with in Saudi Arabia, and life here certainly has its downside, but, hey, nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to stay, are they?

I also agree that many Westerners - despite priding themsleves on the supposed tolerance of the West - are in reality the least tolerant people in the world. They will accept foreigners, for sure - but only if they conform to Western standards. For that reason, it's fascinating to observe people here in KSA, where in a sense, the opposite is true - you adapt (to a certain extent) to local norms, or you go to prison or you get out. The choice is yours. Many - not all - expats find this hard to deal with - how dare the 'ragheads' boss us around? Of course, money talks, and the majority of expats end of staying - and complaining.

But personally, I quite like being somewhere where Western culture - whatever that is - is not seen as something to be emulated at all costs and where Westerners - while admired for their professional skills and work ethics - are not seen as role models, but in many cases are pited becasue they are not Muslims. I actually find it quite healthy.

[scot47]

The "western" attitude is well seen in one of the posts over on the UAE forum. Someone living in Korea is planning to go to the UAE. He (she ?) wants to know how much luggage can be taken as an airline passeneger.

"But tell me in pounds because this kilo business just confuses me."

Clearly someone well adapted to life in an international context.

[Tong Dawei]

Well it finally happened... I got whaled on today while riding my bike! Sent me flyin' but I landed on my feet. I had the green light for one second... two seconds... He was motoring on his scooter coming perpendicular... Red light for one second... two seconds! This was my last straw, I guess, I didn't want to yield yet again! He crashed right into me. I pointed at the light and he got all apologetic. We parted company peaceably.

Capegirl wrote:

[Glenski]

Nice post, Capergirl. I agree.

SweetOne, In response to your message...

[guest of Japan]

Tong,
The level of multiculturalism taught in US schools is a result of intense lobbying by minority groups. If minority groups hadn't and didn't continue to assert themselves the US would most certainly be a more scary beast.

[SueH]

[Tong Dawei]

Hey guest,

Just saying that I wish our system looked out for us better and provided for our societal needs before we had to lobby and do the "march on washington" type of thing. I know that the OCA is quite active politically and socially. And that takes courage! But as far as the everyday person is concerned, shouldn't they just have to be concerned with going to work everyday, feeding the kids and sending them through school, saving for their retirements etc? Shouldn't our know it all leaders just know this, because they are our representaives? I think they're more concerned with trying to get re-relected than keeping their ears to the ground. Do you get where I'm coming from?

p.s. I've seen Asians get shot by Whitey just for being Asian and not even trying to prove a point about equal rights. Do you think those white guys are going to sit through a critique on American society by Asians? That's why I said the schools should do it. I wish they would do it...

[leeroy]

I myself have been guilty of more than a few slurs about our Eastern counterparts.

Latin Americans do things differently too - but (oddly), I don't have so much of a problem with them.

In the West we are taught to value certain things, be it from society, media, parents or whatever;

We are taught that racism is wrong, women should have equal rights, you should marry someone you love, be yourself (and not just copy others), and you should be tolerant of others.

This all sounds fine until you get exposure to Asian culture* - which is pretty much the complete opposite. Now, we face a dilemna - because although we want to "tolerate and understand" this foreign culture, it also flies in the face of everything that we consider to be culturally sacred.

(* Okay okay, a gross generalisation!)

Sorry guys - I can't help it! I don't like "cutesy" Asian girls brandishing Hello Kitty! shit, I don't like the assumed gender roles and restriced autonomy, I don't like making fun of African people, or marrying someone for money and because your parents like them. And I find it especially hard to respect countries that are into "schoolgirl-rape" porn. I don't rate educational systems that are 50 years out of date, and have a particular dislike of dishonesty.

That's why I'm not going back to Asia any time soon! My Asian students in London are most certainly a watered-down form, but they serve as a constant reminder to not go back there.

Perhaps I am enlightened as to what a farce East Asian culture is, or perhaps I'm a closed minded bigot. In any case, I don't travel and expect "everything to be the same", I'd hate it if it were like that. But I have some culture-specific values (as listed above) which I can't help but refer to.

[Roger]

An unnecessary rant, really! Aren't EFL/ESL teachers supposed to be bridge-builders between the Western world and countries where English is not the native tongue? If you agree, than why postulate that we Westerners (in your context it seems to embrace Anglophones only, which is a distortion of the concept of Western culture are so terribly, terribly BIASED?
Yes, of course, we stand for a certain culture, for traditions with which we can identify. But these very same traditions have grown over millenia, through various mediums: There is something borrowed from Babylonian times 8000 years ago, there is an element of Greek culture 4000 years old, there is Roman culture, and there is a lot else besides these. Lastly, English-speaking countries were, until recently, the prime immigration countries that absorbed people from all other national cultures.
I can't agree to this analogy of Angolan and Chinese students being "accepting" or beingmore "tolerant" of Western culture simply because they have studied English for many years and been allowed to emigrate or move to other shores for study purposes: if I studied Japanese in my home country, I would be a lot more "open-minded" about Japan before I set foot there; I would, in fact, be full of curiosity, and probably be a bit too idealistic or naive to see the random racism and xenophobia of Japanese society. As it is, I am not much interested in Japan; I am interested in China, and I have learnt a lot about myself through Chinese eyes, but that does not mean that I have become anti-Western as a result. Far from it - I understand much better now, or so I believe, what makes us different from Chinese or Japanese for that matter.
I worked in a refugee camp in Europe for a few months, and by gosh! I can't say Asians or Africans are any less narrow-minded than some Westerners are. In fact, I believe they are far more given to taking a tunnel vision of the Western world - Europe as the coloniser seems still to be perceived as a haven that owes these people a future, whether they fit in European society or not. Many learn very fast to pity themselves in a compassionate society that offers t5hem asylum, protection from their own home countries. Now I am not one of those who would want to abolish the right to asylum, but I do claim this is a defining difference between Western countries and the rest of the world.
Why are some countries lumped together as "Western" countries and perceived as 'rich'?
It is precisely because of some cultural traditions that these countries share with one another, and that make them so much more viable as nation-states in which even foreigners can claim rights.
Before launching such a tricky debate, you should read some really informative and enlightening literature. One such book I warmly suggest is entitled "The Mainspring of Human Progress" by Henry G. Weaver.
It accurately tells you why some nations are better off than the rest of the world, and that is why developing countries remain net exporters of their human resources.

[struelle]