Job Discussion Forums

flapjack · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: $100,000 usd Education !!!

I have worked in ESL for 20 years, the last 5 in TW. I was really very happy up until now.

Now I have people standing over me, as if I were making french fries at MacDonald's.
(Trying desperately to make me teach English the Taiwanese/Chinese way).

I guess either I got cheated in a huge way on my Education ( private College with 12 students per class, all Professors held a PH.D) or Taiwanese just can't help but micro-manage things until their foreign teachers feel worthless.

Does anyone else feel this way?

BigWally · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:

i think this is how everyone feels...you just have to accept it as the way it is and just let it roll off your shoulders...no point in fighting against a system that you cannot change... Cool

flapjack · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks BigWally,
and yet their is still something that is left in my soul like little Jenny in the forest gump movie that says, "Please God, make me a bird so I can fly far far away from here."

Taylor · Joined: 24 Oct 2003 Posts: 384 Location: Texas/Taiwan

Dear Flapjack,

Thanks for posting! It's unfortunate to hear that things are not working out well for you in your current teaching environment.

Could you provide a few more details about your situation? Are you teaching at a college/university? Do you have a Master's degree? What is it specifically that you are being asked to do (that conflicts with your teaching style/theories regarding language learning?)

I realize that you may simply be looking for a place to 'vent'....and this is the right place! However, I think all of the readers would like to have a bit more insight into your situation.

Thanks!

Taylor
Kaohsiung, 9+ years

BigWally · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject:

it sounds like you've had an experience recently that is really making you upset about this whole situation...what is it that happened, or has been happening?

clearly you have an excellent education, from what you state, but what field is your education in? is it related to the teaching profession?

i'm sure you didnt spend $100000USD to recieve a degree in ESL teaching...so what brought you to begin teaching in the first place? why arent you working in the field related to your degree if it is something other than education?

i have by no means the same credentials, i went to a public university, and had a range of professors from part-time professors to Ph.D's, and a whole lot in between, and my degree is in nothing close to the education field....but what I'm using my experience in Taiwan as, is just that...EXPERIENCE.

we obviously come from different situations, I am using this as a stepping stone to a career in education in the future, where as you are currently in this as a career, but I think the same holds true regardless...

you must not let the "man" get you down...it holds true in any job, in any profession...there are always going to be superiors, and most of the time they are going to do things you dont like, quite often they will even have less intellegence/education than you...

none the less all one can do is do what they do best...and bide your time, for something better will eventually come along, and when it does suddenly when your employer/boss/superior is left out in the cold with some newbie trainee, they will suddenly realize how good they had it when you were around...

I leave you with this to ponder....

"The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him."
- Sun Tzu

flapjack · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your support.
I really don't feel like getting into specifics about my current workplace. I have heard that Kaoshung is a nice to place to work compared to TP and have thought of moving there.
My education wasn't really an Ivy league big name, although it was expensive and well worth it.
I suppose I just feel like venting over the constant grind of having people trying to tweek my English classes into their vision of how it should be done.

When I started out in ESL 20 years ago it was like a gentleman's club. We were trusted and respected and lived up to that trust and respect.

Gotta run for now. But I would still like to address more of your comments later. Have a nice day.

TaoyuanSteve · Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 1028 Location: Taoyuan

I understand the way you feel, flapjack. Taiwan seeks out western university educated, native English speakers and then tries to make them teach the way the local Chinese teacher would. It can be frustrating sometimes being micromanged by people who have no business doing so and knowing that you can give so much more than you are being allowed to give.

flapjack · Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:00 am Post subject:

Hi Steve,
Having been here for 5 years I quite understand all this and have been through these periods before where I just get fed up with it.

When I first came here I went along to get along. But they burned out that attitude quickly, about one year. Then I went through the bad attitude phase, about one year. After the third year I was just numb to it and took a one year sabbatical.

I came back and tried doing private classes only, so I could be my own boss. I was making around 20,000nt a month but it was never really stable. Did that for one year. Now I am back to working full time and being the new guy again makes me the apprentice all over again. Problem is I am already made the way I am and really no longer willing to play all the pressure and control games, and teach English like a pet monkey.

I just feel down and miserable about teaching in TW, knowing as I do that there are heaps better places to teach where a hard worker is respected for his knowledge and left to do the job in peace.

I feel a bit better today and hopefully this feeling better trend will continue for a while.

Thanks for the cyber-cammaraderie,
Flapjack

Serious_Fun · Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 1171 Location: terra incognita

I have never worked in a field/discipline, in any environment, where there were not some negative aspects present.

My personality makes me particularly sensitive to other individuals rather than to physical conditions, so I can relate to flapjack's post. Confused

During those rather trying periods in our teaching career(s), we must get through the week! Spend time with loved ones! Stay positive! Focus on students! Avoid people who exude negativity...(down at the expat pub?)

Keep falling forward! Cool

flapjack · Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject:

Thanks seriousfun,
well I am not into the expat pub scene, that is a complete zero for me.
I am starting to comes to terms with what's going on through understanding. I am tired of the status quo, go along to get along, I am going to stand up and be counted, as someone who gives a damn about the education of my students and the dignity of foreign teachers in Taiwan.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

flapjack · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:05 am Post subject:

Lol Jzer,
As my Indonesian students used to say, "You make me very laughing"
Have you ever taught in Taiwan?
If you had or have you may not dispense such advice.
At any rate I appreciate your concern and I am starting to unwind by just staying at home and focusing on my family.

How's S. Korea?
I've been all over asia but haven't made it to the Philippines or SK.

Best wishes.
Flapjack

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

flapjack,

well, I was just teasing. I have only spent a few weeks in Taiwan.

markholmes · Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 661 Location: Wengehua

My question is, why after 20 years of teaching, you are at the bottom of the ladder again? I'm not trying to antagonise you, it is just a question.

I would imagine after that length of time you would have progressed somewhat. I often imagine that people in the profession for that length of time are usually in a fairly comfortable position in Taiwan or have moved on to something more financially rewarding in the Middle East.

flapjack · Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:10 am Post subject:

No problem Jzer.

Hi Mark,

Well I do consider moving from Buxibans to the public school system as a step up. In many ways it's much better. I was just disappointed to find that at first the parents doubted my ability as a teacher, but that's part of teaching in TW. I wouldn't say it's the bottom of the ladder. It's just that being the new guy has it's drawbacks til people get to know you. Most of the parents are great but it only takes a few well intentioned ones to turn things in the wrong direction. Things are improving though.

As far as to why I havent moved on to international schools or the middle east, I am really not interested in either.