Job Discussion Forums

[Deicide]

Marcel Proust said: "The only true voyage, the only Fountain of Youth, would be found not in traveling to strange lands but in having different eyes, in seeing the universe with the eyes of another person, of a hundred others, and seeing the hundred universes each of them sees, which each of them is."

Whilst I agree with him in part I think that the traveling in strange lands is the logical prerequisite for seeing the universe with the eyes of another person. Growing beyond one's origins necessitates the departure from one's origins in every sense of the word, in particular in the physical sense. How many of you expatriates out there are like me and after years of foreign sojourns barely have anything in commonabout which they can converse with the people who never left their origins and will probably never leave. There is a disconnect there which I would attribute to the foreign experience and the having of different eyes. It is the road warrior who has journeyed to and fro about the world who has many such 'eyes'; I know not a single person of my former ilk who recognises this.

What is your ( 2nd person plural) take?

[denise]

Why is it that so many people have trouble finding common ground with the folks back home after living abroad? I agree that it is hard to keep up with them on topics such as pop culture, the latest TV shows, etc., but surely there is more to talk about than such trivial things! I still feel very close to the friends I left in the US. Maybe I just got lucky by finding a good group of friends, though.

d

[Justin Trullinger]

Hmmm. Possible to travel without seeing *beep* though, isn't it.

My interpretation of the Proust citation wasn't in any way disparaging of travel- just stating that the external journey doesn't prove anything- only the internal one is important.

If you're having an internal journey, while you move your outsides around the globe, hats off to you. Not everybody does, though. We've all known a few travellers who managed to pack all their prejudices and automatic assumptions in the backpack.

And I don't know if I'd say travel is a logical pre-req for seeing the world through others' eyes. It sounds like it's helped you, as it has me. But remember that Rilke travelled little; Emily Dikinson* not at all. SOme people, perhaps, get there in other ways.

"Everyone is the sum of what they've lived, and of what they've read."

Best,
Justin


*intentional mispelling so they don't *beep*ing *beep* it...

[guest of Japan]

I'm with Denise. Being back in the states after a prolonged absence hasn't been that bad at all in terms of reconnecting with people. I just keep myself aware that people aren't that interested in my retelling of all my experiences in a Japan. It's not because they are somehow closed off from international ideas, but because they are my personal experiences. I zone out when someone drones on and on about their personal experiences as well. Most good friendships are based on shared experiences, not one-up-manship.

[ddeubel]

I have to agree with Justin's remarks. It is about the interior voyage. And especially about how it begins with the first steps, when one is young. Somehow, some people in their youth, connect with their inner self more fully and from this first step, their journey is off.......(on).

I also think that if it is truly about "growth" as the OP suggests, then the end of it all is returning where you started. Irving Layton has a marvellous poem about this. I would suggest that Deicide, you aren't there yet, you aren't back to where you started, that end road of complete (as can be) wisdom. Where after much questioning, travel, different perspectives -- an apple is again just an apple (though now different but unknowingly).

Then you will see your old friends/acquaintances back home as you should. Not as different but as part of you -- seeing through their eyes also. Until then, they will seem far away.

DD

PS. I love the Proust quote and he is soooo under appreciated, especially for his essays. His thoughts are pristine, clear and relevant to each person's lives.

[rusmeister]

[sonjainOK]

Proust is actually saying that, although it is utterly impossible, wouldn't it be grand if each of us was able to view every aspect of the universe through the eyes of each and every inhabitat in it? Only then would we be able to fully understand our universe. However, like the Fountain of Youth, this is only wishful thinking as it can't exist.

I do agree that traveling and reading certainly broaden one's mind. In addition, having friends or students from other cultures live with you can certainly expand your views without ever leaving your home. It is, however, so much better to actually be in or live in a place for a bit to somewhat understand it.

As far as being able to connect with friends from my youth, I have no problems there.....old friends, new friends, friends who have been on many adventures, friends who have never traveled, friends with lots of advanced degrees, and friends with no degrees. If you look hard enough, you are sure to find something in common with everybody. Isn't life fun, interesting, and challenging????

[nickpellatt]

"I have never managed to lose my old conviction that travel narrows the mind. At least a man must make a double effort of moral humility and imaginative energy to prevent it from narrowing his mind." G.K. Chesterton

I can only speak from my experiences this year, albeit limited compared to many on the board Im sure.

Time in Africa and China has certainly not narrowed my mind, it has broadened my horizons and way of thinking a great deal.....not always a good thing though...

I can only describe it in a photography analagy....I feel like my experiences this year have changed my view on the world and given me the widest lens to view life through...

The downside being is now that I am back home, I find it very hard to use this big ole lens to refocus on the small picture...as if I am trying to take a close up picture with a big fat lens..

[furiousmilksheikali]

Deicide, don't you think it is somewhat ironic that travelling to other lands in order to see the world through other people's eyes has made you less able to understand those who haven't travelled? Essentially, aren't you condemning the prejudiced with a prejudice of your own?

[Khrystene]

It's one of my favourite quotes actually. And yes, it's true.

'Seeing' with new eyes is far better than wandering around blindly.

[sojourner]

Rusmeister,


I notice that you frequently quote from both GK Chesterton and CS Lewis. I�m wondering whether the quotes that you use are the result of your reading of those two fine writers� works � or, merely the result of a Google search, eg �travel chesterton� ! I�ve found that many Christians often quote Chesterton, but they seldom have ever read any of his works ! With Lewis, although many people seemed to have read his stuff, often it�s of a very limited range of his work � apart from the �Narnia� books, popular among many (even by non-Christians), most people�s reading of Lewis seems to be restricted to � The Screwtape Letters� and �Mere Christianity�. A great pity, in my opinion. One of my favourites is �The Great Divorce� � which hardly any (evangelical) Christians of my acquaintance has even heard of, let alone read � until I told them about it ! Regarding Chesterton, all I�ve read of his is �The Man Who Was Thursday�. I�m hoping eventually to read some of his theological and political stuff, as well as his novels (eg the �Father Brown� series). You may not be aware that Chesterton had some very firm ideas on politics and economic reform, which he called �distributism�. For further information re this aspect of GKC�s thought, read : �GK Chesterton: Radical Populist�, by Margaret Canovan. Although both Chesterton and Lewis could be regarded as �small c� conservatives, their �conservatism� is poles apart from that which is espoused by the likes of John Stormer, whom you referred to in another thread.

BTW, if you have actually read the work from which the quote by GKC re travel came from, could you please provide us with the details ? I�d be fascinated to know of the context in which he opined his views re the connection between travelling and the narrowing of the mind ! Maybe, he meant something, to the effect, that travelling results in experiences that can provide certain individuals with the challenge of using their spiritual and intellectual strengths to cope with the sorts of situations that arise when we don�t have our usual support systems to sustain us. But for those who don't cope in such a positive manner, people will attempt to resort to relying on the experiences and values that they were imbued with "back home". And when those support systems fail to provide adequate support, people will resort to blaming the "foreigners' stupid, backward ways" for the reason why they (the travellers) are unable to cope with problems arising out of "culture shock", etc . Refer to the quotation below.

- - - - - - - - -

When I completed my CELTA training in early 2001, I did not immediately go o�seas.It took me about a year to work up the courage to do so ! But , the time was not wasted � apart from doing a lot of pertinent reading, I also discovered Dave�s ESL Caf�, which I devoured almost everyday ! One day, on the Sth Korean Forum � there was only one, back then � I came across the following quotation, which rather impressed me at the time :


"When you travel, you experience, in a very practical way, the act of rebirth. You confront completely new situations, the day passes more slowly, and on most journeys you don't even understand the language the people speak so you are like a child just out of the womb. You begin to attach much more importance to the things around you because your survival depends upon them. You begin to be more accessible to others because they may be able to help you in difficult situations. And you accept any small favor from God with great delight, as if it were an episode you would remember for the rest of your life. At the same time, since all things are new, you see only the beauty in them, and you feel happy to be alive."
(From "The Pilgrimage" by Paul Coelho) .


Apart from Chesterton, I also intend to tackle Proust. I see references to him all the time. For those who are familiar with his writings, where should one begin ?

Regards,


Peter

PS: Deicide, sorry about the nasty �G� word !

[rusmeister]

Hi Sojourner!
I provided a link to the source with the quote. I don't suppose many people took a look at what should seem to be a startling statement, and your supposition is a good guess, but not what he actually had in mind.
In referring to the OP, the issue of travel, which is such a big part of our jobs, leads most people to assume that the travel is an unqualified gain in terms of experience. I think it is a big gain, but Chesterton's point is a good qualifier.
To answer your question, I have read nearly everything Lewis published (not necessarily wrote), and have read some Chesterton - The Everlasting Man (most challenging book I've ever read - the one that turned Lewis towards C.), Orthodoxy, Heretics, and am plowing through "What's Wrong With the World (WWWW). I agree with a lot of what you said, but don't feel free to discuss it here. BBIWY. As far as it relates to the OP, I'd recommend you take a look at that link.

[eha]

'Hmmm. Possible to travel without seeing *beep* though, isn't it. '

Ain't that the truth.

[Joeldew]

Justin encapsulated this thread very eloquently.

My �travels� over the past six months have informed me that indeed, it is as much a journey to our �inner self� as it is a voyage across the seas.

Best regards.