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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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 Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: Why movies? |
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Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Malsol, please meet ChinaMovieMagic.
ChinaMovieMagic, please meet InTime.
InTime, please meet Malsol.
Wondering whether the outraged epithet this time will be "putz," "a$$," or something even more original...  |
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latefordinner
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Henry, slow down and have an eggnog.
Malsol, perhaps I have a really huge ego, but when showing movies in class I like to see that the students are learning and not just vegging. I hate to stop and explain, but sometimes I do. More often though I make a test of it. Much like an IELTS listening test, I give the students a list of questions to answer as they watch. Maybe I'm a little too uptight, maybe I should sit back and relax a bit more. Oh, and typically I break the movie into class time segments, and watch it over a period of several classes. Doesn't seem to hurt the continuity of the movie, and it tends to pull in people who would skip the odd Friday class. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| With the ChinaMovieMagic programme, the teachers do indeed just "sit back and relax." They have also been known to veg out and space out. |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Why movies? |
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| Malsol wrote: |
The average Chinese college student reads one English page in an hour.
The average movie script is 50 pages.
If a Chinese student watches an English movie that runs two hours, listens to multiple native speakers, reads English subtitles, and catches only 50% of the meaning, that is still 23 pages more than if they had read the script.
PRETEACHING VOCABULARY FROM THE MOVIE WILL INCREASE THE COMPREHENSIBILITY.
"Comprehensible input in a friendly environment." Krashen
One major complaint is that most movies are too long for the allotted class time. Then show them in the evening at a substitute time.
Some teachers want to stop the movie to discuss and explain. This is personal ego getting in the way of the students responsibility to learn, think and be responsible.
Relax, sit back and watch a movie. Let the stuidents develop their own opinions and ideas. Next class have them share them with you.
This is one way to conduct an English conversation class. |
Malsol,
this is highly condensed nonsense!
First question:
Why do our college students take that long to read one page?
Tentative answer: because they don't understand any contiguous English - they undestand one word at a time, and they try to find a Chinese equivalent. Understanding WORDS doesn't equate to COMPREHENSION!
They can't follow movies or newsreels either as anyone who has observed them knows! Your assumption their minds would process 23 pages of 46 is fantastic!
Second objection:
WHy did you quote S. KRashen?
His observations cannot be applied to any CHinese English classroom; these are not environments conducive to free discussions and the developming of imagination. Our students also lack the FEEL for the language - Krashen stipulates in no uncertain terms that learners must be COMPETENT enough (have a "monitor" that guides them in producing English).
My last point is:
Do you know how many vocables the English language contains? And how many of them get "acquired" by our students?
At university level, students are required to "know 4000 words"...Four thousand only! And not that they know how to use them! A verb is a noun is an adjective is a preposition to them!
I have yet to meet a significant enough minority of students in any class that would be intellectually alert and linguistically empowered to engage in a lively discussion - retell a movie, discuss its underlying plots and subplots or intentions. |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| You are free to ignore this (and any other) post. Why don't you? |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:06 am; edited 3 times in total |
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sheeba
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1123
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: |
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I don't quite know why anyone would take Krashen and his theories to heart especially teaching in China . Krashen's theories have limited value in Chinese classrooms. There is evidence (Ellis1997) that 'learning' throgh an explicit presentation of a rule can sometimes work more effectively than 'acquiring' a rule implicitly. Learning can turn into acquisition.I wouldn't bet against that.
Anyway as far as films are concerned I'd say that they encourage implicit performance and what students know becomes manifest only in actually watching films . As a poster mentioned we have to consider whether the student is consciously aware(are they interested in the film or sleeping) and have they got a task while the film is being shown. I would think that attention to form is important so to get your students to notice pre taught language seems to me to be sensible. |
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Itsme
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 624
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: Why movies?
The average Chinese college student reads one English page in an hour.
The average movie script is 50 pages.
If a Chinese student watches an English movie that runs two hours, listens to multiple native speakers, reads English subtitles, and catches only 50% of the meaning, that is still 23 pages more than if they had read the script. |
So if I listen to an Engish movie while I am sleeping and I sleep 8 hours that is the equivalent of reading 200 pages of English script?
I think that if you were to ask Bill Nye the science guy or any other science guy for that matter, you would find that they may perhaps say that language is a complicated thing and can not be broken down into an analogy between the words in a movie Vs the words on a page of script.
For ME, personally, watching movies is an inactive (activity?) whereas reading a book is much more active, in that it takes much more concentration.
Now, what if there is a correlation between language acquisition and mental effort?
If reading one page of English script took X amount of effort whereas watching a movie took X/10 effort, then I could simply say that one would have to watch 10 movies to gain the same effect.
Now I am sure that movies have their good points but whether they are more effective than reading..... I'm not so sure about that.
Obviously you can HEAR the correct usage of language through the movies but you can arguably practice speaking through reading by subvocalization and the subtle movements of the tongue while one reads.
It also depends on where the student's attention is. One can easily day dream through a movie though he/she is present as one can day dream through a page of script though he/she reads it! |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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diana83709
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Nanchong, Sichuan province, China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Some US college Eng. Lit. books have popular plays that are available on DVD that could be shown as well as have the students read scenes from the play in the book (perhaps before the movie).
Even something like "Death of a Salesman" may benefit them. They can participate as characters in reading and they may become more interested while watching,as well as have some comprehension of the movie. (?? some anyways)
Some students actually want to learn and others are perma-veggies when it comes to English.
Just a thought...... |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, there is always Englishdroids take on this topic:
| Quote: |
Eventually you might be tempted to show your class a video.
Videos look great in theory. The teacher bungs one on, tells the students to prepare comprehension questions for each other (so he does not have to) and falls asleep in a darkened corner. The students would far rather watch a film than do grammar exercises and readings, so they will be happy.
Life in practice is seldom so simple. The first problem is finding a suitable video. Your school possesses eight, all of which the students have seen several times. If they have not watched them in a lesson, they will have done so at home.
Perhaps you have bought a video for your own amusement and you bring that in. However, you must not forget one of the golden rules of teaching: anything the teacher likes, the students will not (and vice versa). A film released before 1990 might as well have been made during the Punic Wars. Students will stare at you in horror and cry, �I not born then!�
Another problem is language. If the film is subtitled in the local language, the students will derive negligible benefit from watching it. If it is not, they will not understand a thing.
In some countries you have to be very, very careful about the slightest hint of a suspicion of a whisper of an iota of a whit of a smidgen of smut. If you show an ostensibly innocent film like A Fish Called Wanda during Ramadan, do not be surprised if your students storm out en masse.
Let us imagine that, despite these difficulties, you have decided to go through with it. You have your film and you are prepared to ignore any objections from the students. The next problem is the equipment. There are VHS and Beta videocassettes. There are VCDs and various flavours of DVD. The pirated disks that work perfectly well at home fail to do so on the elderly machine at work. And so on. You explain these complications in the local language to the school porters. After a lot of mime and a few false starts (they try to sell you a pornographic video, they remove the tape recorder from your classroom, they think you have given them the school's video player and are overjoyed), they trundle the equipment to the classroom and connect all the cables.
The students arrive. For a moment they are excited, until they see which video you have chosen. Groans. You explain the task. More groans. You switch on the video. Nothing happens. You try other buttons. Nothing. The students watch impassively. This is, after all, more entertaining than the film is likely to be. In the end you give up and fetch the school porter.
You are now in the highly embarrassing position of having to talk to the porter in front of the students. While he is not thrown by your attempts to speak his language, the students find it hilarious. Now they can get revenge for all those lessons on the ing form, sentence stress, phrasal verbs. Every word you utter provokes gales of incredulous laughter and is repeated in a savage parody of your accent. Bright red, you huddle over the machine with your back to them.
Eventually everything works. The film starts. Students immediately make derisive noises about the actors, the sets, the costumes, the film quality, the sound, and so on. They ignore the task and keep up a background commentary in their language.
Films are about the same length as English lessons. This means that, by the time you have got it started, the film will overrun by ten minutes. Students will not stay in an English language classroom 30 seconds more than necessary. You will have to split the film over two lessons (meaning a repeat performance and more groans) or skip the ending.
After a video lesson most teachers clutch the student book to their bosoms like a lost teddy bear and vow never to spurn it again. |
And don't try saying you haven't been there! |
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Malsol
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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