Job Discussion Forums

[mia_1]

Hi guys, I'm a bit of a newbie at this, so my apologies for anything that sounds somewhat stupid. I'm Australian, have done 3 years of a 4-year university degree so have not graduated yet. I am taking 2007 out from studying.

I have been offered a position teaching in Japan with Nova (flexi position), and I must make a decision as to whether I will accept this or not. My main concern is that, because I am going to be part-time, I will not have much money to enjoy a social life and be able to go out for meals etc etc. I understand I can sign up for overtime but don't want to rely on this.

The other option I am tossing up is teaching in Vietnam by starting out doing a TEFL course on arrival. However I am uncertain of my chances of being employed in Vietnam without a degree. Does having 3 years of uni under your belt count for anything? Anyway sorry this has turned out to be a bit of an essay, was just interested in thoughts from people who may have experienced either option
thanks : )
Mia

[Brooks]

let me guess: working holiday visa?
How many hours are you going to get?
I don`t know how you can make it part-time, unless you work at least one other job.
Where in Japan is this school?

[mia_1]

yep working holiday visa, apparently with the flexi part time schedule you earn about Y220,000 per month for working 28 hours per week. It's with NOVA. They say you can pick up overtime to supplement your income and I've heard of flexi's earning more than full timers, but I suppose you never know until you get there. I think the base salary is just enough to cover your rent etc but may be living off noodles...
No idea where it will be yet, I find out in a few weeks. I had medium-sized cities as my preference though.

Brooks have you taught in Japan or Vietnam? How do you find it? I am just really unsure about Vietnam because I don't have a degree, so I don't really want to pay $1500 to do a TEFL and then not be able to find a job. I know a lot of people say that any old backpacker can get a job but maybe these are just rare occasions and having a degree is the norm... hmm.. help! I've heard its hard to get a work permit also in VN? I can't find any Australian-specific info so there might be different requirements for people from US/UK/Aus?

[Brooks]

I haven`t taught in Vietnam but obviously do in Japan.
So I don`t know about work permits for Vietnam.

Japan isn`t cheap but the Tokyo area is expensive. 220,000 yen isn`t much. At least with Nova you have a place to stay. Key money is expensive.
I think requesting to work in a medium size city is a good idea.

I thought with Nova you had to have a degree to get hired.

[mia_1]

I know Americans need a degree to work for NOVA but Aus has some agreement with them and you only need to have completed 2 years of a degree so thats helpful.
Maybe I'll just wing it and see how things go...

[Brooks]

yes, that`s right, there is no WHV for Americans, so they need the degree.

[BedTiger]

You can not even begin to compare Japan and Vietnam in terms of money. If we look at averages, the average teacher should be making 1200-1300 a month full time in Nam, while in Japan 220-250000 Yen is the average. But given this you can lead a much better life style in Vietnam as this money will go alot further, in Japan 250 is enough to get by but you will have to watch the money.

Naturally there is more money to be had in both countries, but the noobie stepping off the boat is not going to get them. Currently I make 2000$ a month in Hanoi and I lead a lifestyle that most English teacher will never have in Japan. I can easily live of 500$ a month, and save a quite a bit...not that I do...but I love traveling.

[liehtzu]

Two beers in Japan is the cost of a pretty reasonable night-long bender in Vietnam. Keep in mind. That said, consider what you like:

Is access to goods you can buy back home a factor? The stores in Vietnam are dusty, understocked, and usually lack refrigeration. Is safety and cleanliness a factor? Hygiene in VN ain't so good - even the locals wipe off their spoons and chopsticks thoroughly before using them in restaurants - and traffic accidents and fights after too much booze is common. Japan is safe, clean, efficient, and no one's going to rob you or rip you off. Vietnam is hot, poor, and on "Vietnam time" (and one can substitute the word "Vietnam" in that phrase for any other locality in the region, i.e. "Thai time," "Filipino time," which means significantly later than stated/agreed upon). The locals can be charmingly tenacious - I love it when the local xe om drivers follow you half a block down the road repeatedly asking "Sir, you want motorcycle? Where you go?" Or the market ladies who refuse to give you the correct price for a bag of oranges even though you know what it is.

But! As has been said elsewhere on here, I don't think Vietnam is an immediate love for people who arrive there, especially from friendlier countries like Thailand. Yet people grow to love it in a deep way. It is hot and chaotic, but there are so many places that are quiet and serene. Get a motorcycle by all means. Others will tell you that the traffic in Vietnam is thorough horror, and it is, but there's a weird anti-logic to it that once you understand is easy to master (it's a matter of passive-aggressiveness mostly). Drive out to the beaches and the mountains. Have a cold bia hoi on the streets of Saigon and watch the wonderful flow of traffic rush by. I'm in Japan right now, and it's cold and overcast, and the city I'm in is crowded and dreary. But it is definitely more "Western" than Vietnam in many ways (check out the record stores here in Japan! in Vietnam the only foreign band they know is The Scorpions), and if you can't live without McDonald's be aware that there ain't one in Vietnam, a nation of 80 million. Nor a Wendy's or Pizza Hut.

As you will note on this forum, a lot of people hate living in Vietnam. I am not one of them.

To sum

Japan: totally too-cool-for-school, great clubs, shopping, first-world, gorgeous girls, efficiency, cleanliness, good food, good beer, pockets of traditional culture, skyskrapers, ultra-expensive, cold weather in winter, confusing, crowded, and a rather aloof population (I find). I also think the job scene is worse in Japan: more work, longer hours. But the pay is better than Vietnam.

Vietnam: warmth, beaches, ridiculously inexpensive, gorgeous girls, chaos and calm, hit-and-miss food, good beer, lack of hygiene and facilities, months of rainy season, nice folk (though this often involves cracking the shell, and I find that the further south you go the nicer the locals are), poor, hot, crowded.

Take your pick. You are considering two very different places. If you don't mind cold winters and you're looking for something modern then Japan is the way to go. If you're interested in something a little wilder and more unpredictable, want to live in the tropics, and are willing to weather a lot of initial frustration, Vietnam is recommended.

Good luck.

[Brooks]

the pay is better in Vietnam?
You mean the cost of living is better. Japan is too expensive.

[ChuckECheese]

Well, this is how it usually works in Vietnam.

Unless you�re working for some well known legit (non-Vietnamese owned and operated) international schools like British International or SSIS which pays you decent salary with all the perks and benefits, you will end up working for some language schools on a hourly basis which pays you anywhere from $12 (or even less) to $20 (which is very rare) with little or no benefits. And these language school jobs are part-time gigs so you�ll end up working for two or even three school juggling various schedules to work full-time hours to make $1000 - $1500/month. And it really sucks to be running around from school to another school in the infamous traffic, the heat, and the rain (during rainy season) of Vietnam. I�ve seen many people doing it.

And yes, as some one has said, you can lead a decent life in Vietnam with $500-$700 per month if you�re not a heavy drinker and end up saving $500 - $1000 which isn�t a lot of money in my opinion. It�s considered a lot of money only if you are going to live in Vietnam permanently.

I am now teaching in Korea. I have signed one year contract with school currently teaching only 20 hours per week on fixed schedule of 4 p.m. � 8 p.m. (M-F) even though I agreed to teach maximum of 30 hours at monthly salary of 2.5 million won (over $2600) with all the perks and benefits which includes free fully furnished single apartment (worth 300,000 won = over $300), severance pay at the end of the contract period which is equal to one extra month of salary, pension which I contribute 50% and my employer 50% and I will be able to claim and get 100% of my pension contribution when I leave Korea, medical insurance, 3 weeks of vacation, 3 days of sick leave, all paid national holidays. And the income tax is very low at around 2%.

During afternoons, I teach 2 hours of private lessons (It is illegal to teach private lessons in Korea, but everyone do it) everyday totaling 10 hours a week. I charge 50,000 won ($53)/hour. So just private lesson fees alone, I make well over $2000 per month.

So I net over $4500 per month. And the food and selection of it in Korea is much much better than in Vietnam in my opinion. My total monthly expense runs around $1500. I usually spend approximately $1000 on food and beverages and $500 on travel and entertainment for the weekends. So I end up saving over around $3000 per month. I have been in Korea for over 5 months and I have saved nearly $15,000 which is about the same amount of money that I saved while working in Vietnam for over two years which is very laughable.

I have never worked in Japan but I suspect that pay and benefits are comparable to Korea, if not better.

Well, bottom line is that you do the math and figure out which is better working in Vietnam or Korea/Japan.

[Blade]

[ChuckECheese]

[Brooks]

for money, Korea has got to be a better deal. Low taxes, lower cost of living, cheaper beer and taxis, etc.
No way I can save $3000 a month. Before I was married I could save money, but after marriage, it`s tough.
I can make money in Japan, but with the high cost of living, I can`t save much. Rent in the Tokyo area is really high. Not to mention car insurance and the car inspection.

I`m going to Saigon next year so if anyone knows about the city and its nightlife, please post.

[mononoaware]

I think ChuckECheese's comments are definitely valid and useful for many, I'm not sure they're relevant to the original poster.

So, okay, no experience, no degree, no TEFL.

My first teaching job was in Japan, now I'm in Vietnam.

In Japan you'd more or less be dependent on that NOVA job, and unless you managed to pick up some privates, I think you'd be struggling financially. I knew one Aussie girl in that part-time degree-less situation, and I think she was dipping into pre-Japan savings throughout her time there.

Japan is a beautiful country, and wonderful to live in, but it's not a place to be broke in.

Vietnam, on the other hand, could afford you a more comfortable lifestyle. The work permit thing IS a nightmare. In fact, it's such a nightmare that almost no one has one! They keep renewing their 6 month business visas--no questions asked. If you look the part, not having a degree won't be a factor, especially if you're happy to work with small children.

I agree, as a career EFL teacher looking to save lots of cash, Korea and Japan are easier places to do it. But without qualifications, you'll be a slave to your employers (if you can even find one!) in K and J. In VN, don't settle for less than $12-$14. Money won't be an issue.

[AnnMouse]

Hi, OP,
Sorry but you said the job was part time, then you said it was 28 hours a week. Is this contact hours? Because if it is then that's certainly not a part-time job - mind you I've heard you don't have to prepare lessons for some types of EFL teaching in Japan - don't know how true that is though