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erinyes
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 272
Location: GuangDong, GaoZhou
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 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: Self sufficiency � fixing my own visa problem |
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Sometimes isn�t it better to stop taking to word of the people around you and go get your answers yourself, it is my recent experience that this is the right course of action.
My working visa ends on the 20th of January. I was always intending to leave the school after this term, to return to Australia, but I asked the school a number of times whether I should go home before the 20th or if they wanted to renew until the end of the term. I didn�t get any answer for ages, and so I assumed they were taking care of it. Monday the VP rings the PSB and finds out that it�s just too much work and effort, and so just said that I should return home. I asked him if it was possible to extend my visa to a tourist visa just for the last month (something I know many people here have done) and apparently the local PSB official said �no� to that option. With only 12 days to buy a plane ticket, I freaked and my Chinese friends (a few teachers at the school) spent a frantic evening ringing around to try and find an air ticket while I searched online.
I was really worried, so I decided to get up early and visit the PSB myself before my first class for the day. Without telling anyone I got a cab down there and asked myself. Told them the school only just rang, and it was proving difficult to get a ticket on such short notice.
The lady said there was no problem at all extending my visa, and she couldn�t understand why the VP was told that a tourist visa was out of the question. All they had to do was write a letter stating that they had finished up the contract and I needed a few days to book a plane ticket.
When I arrived back at the school and told everyone what I had done a few offered �I would have come with you� but in the end I am just happy I went alone. Only took an hour there and back.
Now I have a ticket for the 2nd of Feb, and everything is sorted.
So � the moral, I have spent so long around here thinking that there is nothing I can do to solve my own problems, whereas in fact, most of these offices have English speakers, so I could fix the problem myself. |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
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A bit of Aussie "can do"; well done.
Better than screeching at your FAO secretary, then posting on here how useless everyone is. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Self sufficiency � fixing my own visa problem |
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| erinyes wrote: |
| So � the moral, I have spent so long around here thinking that there is nothing I can do to solve my own problems, whereas in fact, most of these offices have English speakers, so I could fix the problem myself. |
Amen to that!
The sooner we start to take control of our own situations, the better off we will all be in my opinion. Sure its best if the school handles all of this efficiently for you, but when they don't why rely on others when you can do it yourself and get the problem solved?
I believe that you are in Wenzhou, and the PSB there is pretty good. People in other cities may not be so lucky as far as English speaking staff, but in those cases a Chinese friend can be a real help. At the end of the day getting the problems sorted out is what really matters - not who is right or wrong!
Good on you for getting what you wanted. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| The sooner we start to take control of our own situations, the better off we will all be in my opinion. Sure its best if the school handles all of this efficiently for you, but when they don't why rely on others when you can do it yourself and get the problem solved? |
This kind of statement could be focused on many aspects of FT life in China - with special emphasis on the middle men such as recruiters. Why use these types when any "go-for-it" type of person can cut out the potential hassle of having of having the professionaly ineffective looking after their interests in China.
Take control of your own situation - think seriously about cutting yourself clean from often dubious services of the recruiter  |
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upchuckles
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| vikdk: as a newbie here, I've been unfortunate to follow many of the threads that you've been a part of. Whatever problem you have with clark, wordup or others you contribute alot of noise that as a new person to the board, it is unpleasant to wade through. The OP did not post about recruiters and I believe most of us can figure out what clarks intentions are. Thats all I want to say. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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upchuckles - well as a newbie I'd think my and Clark's advice about taking control of your own situation - could be a very useful tip - In all aspects of being an FT 
But then again maybe you're not such a "newbie" if you have been paying such close attention to my posts - does my advertising of the grimier side of China FT existence disturb you - I know some don't like it since they feel it's bad for business  |
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erinyes
Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 272
Location: GuangDong, GaoZhou
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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I mostly wrote this just because I wanted to remind myself how self sufficient I used to be, and how the offers of people to help me out here have made my super lazy over these 2 years. I would NEVER have asked people to help me with so much before!!
And by the way - how the hell does one get a job in a public school without a recruiter may I ask? This school uses a recruiter... I can see how private schools do their own hiring, but I just can't see someone (eg an English teacher) here having enough time to wade through all the crappy letters of application one gets when one puts an ad for a teacher up online. Trust me, they are now trying to replace me and I have seen some of the ones they are rejecting that the recruiter has offered up! I wouldn't want to see the unfiltered applications! |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| erinyes wrote: |
And by the way - how the hell does one get a job in a public school without a recruiter may I ask? |
Many public schools prefer to do their own recruiting, for much the same reason that many of us prefer to deal direct with the school. Some sites eg www.chinatefl.com whilst being recruiter owned, and the school has paid to have their ad run, have direct links to the school's website and FAO, so there's no need to work through the agency at all. Also, many universities will have an English version of their website. Arriving at a school with a handful of emails bearing that establishment's address is a better situation than waiting at the airport to see where you are really being assigned, as has happened to people I know. |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| erinyes wrote: |
| And by the way - how the hell does one get a job in a public school without a recruiter may I ask? |
I'd like to see an answer to this one from those people who are anti-all recruiters rather than just anti-bad recruiters.
Searching for jobs online can be a way of finding work however the schools that advertise directly are only a fraction of the schools that offer positions and many of the schools that advertise positions online are the same old schools over and over again which could raise the question as to why they have such high teacher turnover.
The best positions to be found obviously come word of mouth and once you are in China you can sometimes track these down, but this is generally only a suitable option for your second year and once you know your way around a bit. So recruiters are the obvious choice for someone coming to China for the first time and they are certainly a reasonable option. You just need to exercise due care to ensure that your recruiter is not one of those ones that should be avoided.
As to the question of whether I am a recruiter myself well it has been asked and answered on this forum before but some people just refuse to accept the answer. No I am not a recruiter nor have I ever been. The fact that I am involved with a website that has probably the biggest single English language list of schools in China that can be used to make direct contact with schools would be kind of counterproductive if I were a recruiter myself
I simply don't agree that teaching in China is as dangerous and bad as some people would have you believe. I have outlined my reasons why on many occasions. Others are free to judge for themselves how they feel about this and even explain why they disagree. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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erinyes wrote -
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| but I just can't see someone (eg an English teacher) here having enough time to wade through all the crappy letters of application one gets when one puts an ad for a teacher up online. |
isn't that how a responsible employer obtains a good worker? If they haven't even the resources to advertise and check applications then warning signals should be sounding - no wonder these schools can't be bothered to sort out visa issues. Therefore schools that have to rely on a recruiter could be viewed in light of not being "up to it" with regard to the job of coping with the special demands of an FT.
As far as Clark is concerned -
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| however the schools that advertise directly are only a fraction of the schools that offer positions and many of the schools that advertise positions online are the same old schools over and over again |
can you back this up with a few figures - or do we just have to take your word on this 
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| but this is generally only a suitable option for your second year and once you know your way around a bit. |
suitable??? - when first arriving in China don't the vets talk to newbies - can't a newbie find their way from a hostel to an FT watering hole - can't newbies read ads posted up on hostel walls!!! No folks finding a decent job here can be a question of finance - enough money to tide you over for a couple of months as you search in country - a place where all that Clark promoted research can be done first hand!!! And if you do have to use a recruiter - well darn it you can meet 'em in person here - and really judge if they're your cuppa-tea
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| As to the question of whether I am a recruiter myself well it has been asked and answered on this forum before but some people just refuse to accept the answer. No I am not a recruiter nor have I ever been. |
so what do you do - you will never tell us -but an answer would certainly shut my mouth up on the subject. And by the way it is important that we know, because one really does want to know the agenda behind the message -
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| I simply don't agree that teaching in China is as dangerous and bad as some people would have you believe. |
what practical foundation is it built on  |
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eslstudies
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 1061
Location: East of Aden
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
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| I simply don't agree that teaching in China is as dangerous and bad as some people would have you believe. |
what practical foundation is it built on |
I followed Clark's link to find it led to Buxiban: a pay site. I suppose if I were looking for a job I might fork out, but as an interested bystander I didn't. A free alternative [bearing in mind I wasn't able to view Buxiban] is:
http://www.chinaschoolreview.net/
I can personally vouch for the integrity of Nate, the site's administrator.
Teaching in China can be bad for the unprepared, the unwary and the unlucky. I've known people in each group. Over five years I managed to avoid dangerous [OK, I was lucky: anyone can get hit by a taxi] and bad situations. Avoiding the "bad" had to do with talking at length to the places I was thinking of working at. If they didn't seem interested in answering, or if I didn't like the answers, I dropped them off the list. However, for this to work, you need to be highly marketable. A TEFL cert, no degree and no relevant experience will see the applicant quite likely find China to be bad and dangerous! |
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clark.w.griswald
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 2056
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| eslstudies wrote: |
| I followed Clark's link to find it led to Buxiban: a pay site. I suppose if I were looking for a job I might fork out, but as an interested bystander I didn't. |
Fair enough but just for the record we don�t see the site as being a paid site. There is no membership fee for those who add a review. The fee only applies to users who either have no information to offer or choose not to offer information. Our aim being to have a community where everyone contributes and thereby guaranteeing the continuation of the site and its validity as an information resource. Granted this is somewhat different from the average EFL site but it works for us.
Agreed. Nate�s has some nice detailed reviews and offers the opportunity for readers to post replies which can be interesting reading.
The more of these types of sites the better in my opinion. But they should only be used as a guide and not relied upon as bible.
| eslstudies wrote: |
| If they didn't seem interested in answering, or if I didn't like the answers, I dropped them off the list. However, for this to work, you need to be highly marketable. |
That�s really key to finding a good position. Don�t just accept a job because one is offered. Take control of the situation by being more involved in finding the right employer and making yourself marketable enough to be able to choose them rather than the other way around. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Fair enough but just for the record we don�t see the site as being a paid site. There is no membership fee for those who add a review. |
sorry newbies - Clark has just cold shouldered you - since you have no reviews to submit. Therefore for you, his site is very much a pay site
As we have now established that Clark runs a site that any interested newbie has to pay to use - we have now established quite a convincing reason why he should talk the job of China FT up so much in his posts - afterall creating a positive spin regarding FT work in China could well draw more newbies into wanting to use and pay for his site!!!
It would interesting if he would tell us what other type of association he has with ESL in China - because if its just through a paysite that seems to be so strongly connected with recruiting, then a lot of his advice does start to lose out on the credibility scale |
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no_exit
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Kunming
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Did the OP start a topic about handling your own visa problems, or about the pros and cons of using a recruiter? I admit, I haven't been posting as much here recently since the site has been annoyingly slow for me, but when I do pop on I find the same people hashing out the same arguments that were making this site tedious even *before* the eslcafe page started taking 10 minutes to load and I'm reminded why logging on just isn't worth the effort anymore.
I, personally, can't fathom why some people are so hung up on how other people choose to go about finding jobs. Similarly, feeling the need to drag what seems to be a personal vendetta into threads that are completely unrelated to said vendetta is disrespectful to both the OP and members of this board who don't care to have to wade through these repetitive posts over and over again in order to get to the on-topic stuff. Seriously, could you two just knock it off already?
erineyes -- good on you for solving your own problem. I've done this many times over the years that I've been here, and have found that sometimes you can actually accomplish more on your own than you can with the school "helping." The Chinese have a saying that goes "越帮越忙," which basically means the more someone "helps" the more complicated the situation gets. Sometimes just going down to the PSB, explaining your situation, and doing a bit of begging will solve a lot of problems (a hint for dealing with Chinese officials -- they really like feeling like they're doing you a huge favor, saving the day, that kind of thing. Ham it up, lavish thanks upon them, and make them feel important. Their job is generally tedious and thankless and a bit of ego stroking can go a long way. This strategy has worked for me and my friends a number of times).
As for changing a work visa to a tourist visa for the purpose of getting your things in order and booking a ticket, this is pretty standard practice and if a school tells you they "can't" do it, the likely scenario is that they don't can't to be bothered doing it, not that they are truly unable. Always check the situation out for yourself if you've been told "impossible!" The biggest lesson to take from this situation is that you are not helpless here, even though Chinese employers would often like us to believe that's the case. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I totally agree with no-exit - after I wrote my little remark on the Clark's concept of FT self-sufficiency could also be applied to finding a job - and how we can do that ourselves, a process that cuts down on that considerable risk of beging ripped-off by an anonymous middle man (which by the way is an issue that, I would think, has great relevance to to many readers of this forum - after all its something anybody involved in this business should care about) - then Clark suddenly changed his whole mind and for some mysterious reason decided that in this area FT's should be reliant on recruiters - Clark deary me - follow no-exits good advice - you realy should stick to forum topics .
But anyways - luckily - the resultant discussion then blossomed out into something far more interesting than the OP's rather lack-lustre first post - after all any FT who has been here a year or so should be able to figure out how to handle their own visa problems - what's so exciting about that |
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