Job Discussion Forums

[downtownbill]

I posted a query about a recruiting agency that
advertised for 20 teachers for Jinan. I did speak with Chelsea
Chan, and she assures me the school will be in Jinan.
You have been helpful with your replies. The thing is, she advises me to get a tourist visa, and later get a F visa for the 4 month contract.
Why wouldn't she advise just getting the F visa to begin with?

[Malsol]

In a word: Illegal

[georginachina]

They have advertised under at least three different company names. This is not a school, it is a recruiter. Don't fall for it. If you want to come to Jinan, PM me with your details, and I will put you in touch with a school.

[mondrian]

[NathanRahl]

Well truth be told, having people come here on an L visa is very common. This is not to say it is not illegal. However, many "proper" teachers, as you called yourself, are asked to come here on an L visa for a number of reasons.

Now one of them is that yes, they are a school who can not hire foreign teachers legally.

I have found that it is just as often a case of wanting to save time and money though. It is cheaper, and quicker, to get the proper visa in country then to have to do it in the USA, which the school must then reimburse the teacher for, in US dollars.

Schools have a hard time getting teachers for a number of reasons. Their lack of western liasons to act as a go between for one. Their total lack of how to communicate with westerners, often a combination of bad english and no understanding of our society. Given these factors, they actually have a hard time filling their job openings fully by the start of the year. Yes, the reason for this is bad management and shortsighted cheap school owners and headmasters, but thats another thread entirely.

Basically, it is just as often a time saving and money saving measure. Much of the time it has nothing to do with hiring a teacher illegally. I am not saying it is right, but I am not saying it is wholly wrong either, it's one of those gray areas, and who am I to judge?

Anyhow, without that "gray area" schools would never be able to get the teachers they needed. Shortage of teachers, not enough students. Not enough students, not enough money to pay the "proper" teachers. When you think about it, in many ways those same pack backer meatsticks, as I used to call them privately, who teach without knowing how, give the rest of us a job, and likely will continue to do so.

Unless of course the chinese start paying oodles of money to attract tons of bonafide experienced canidates. What do you think the odds are of that happening?

[KES]

With so many provinces now refusing to convert a tourist visa to a working visa, is this a safe idea?

[NathanRahl]

Hmm, well your forgetting that much of the visa conversion is quanxi based, and many still do the L to F then F to Z visa deal. Others simply hve you arrive right in Honk Kong, get it done then, and make your way to your place of work. or they simply bring you in on a 2-3 month tourist, and send you to HK on a weekend or Holiday. In the end the school does not get in any trouble. Because they have the right connections, and they end up saving a lot of money.

Like I said, not exactly right, but not wholly wrong either. And yes, many schools do this equally, with both degree holders and non, like I said, it's usually about saving money.

Now as for it being safe, like I said, most of the time it is common, but you do still have schools who actully want you to work there illegally, so they can take advantage of and almost own you in a sense. They are becoming less and less of a problem, but such places still exist, so of course you have to be careful. Do your homework, ask a lot of questions, and definatly insist on speaking to many people who have worked there in the past. Usully doing your homework can prevent such problems, but nothing is ever for certain.

[cj750]

Generally it is easier to change from an L to a z than a f to a z..and securing an F in a western country usually comes under more scrutiny than an L...

If you come in on an L..insist that they change it before you start work..it is legal to go to Hon Kong and get the L changed to a Z...as long as the school has presented you with an invitation letter and all paperwork such as medicals are obtained before going to HK...if the school has some juice..then they may be able to change "in country"....

but just a piece of advice.. don't come on a L ...it leaves you wide open and you have to have faith in the Chinese..who are never worthy of trust...

[NathanRahl]

In theory I think Cj is right, in practice, well, I came to china on an L, and had no problem. He is right that most chinese are not to be trusted. For safeties sake it would be great to never come on an L, but right now, thats just not a realisitc expecatation. Timing has a lot to do with it, if the school term starts in two weeks, it is not possible for the school to get you there on time and get you a Z visa, so they must make do with an L.

However sometimes the school is just one not legally allowed to hire teachers, so yes, you have to do your homework, bigtime.

When I said illegal, I meant it is not legal to work on an L, though more then I can mention do it their first month here, and most never have a problem. Don't ask don't tell basically, PSB don't ask, you dont tell. Again, do your homework, and make sure the school can legally hire foreign teachers.

[Steppenwolf]

It's not unusual for someone to invite FTs on tourist visas, then have them compete for a limited number of vacancies.
Bear that possiblity in mind!
They can test you for the duration of your tourist visa shelflife, paying you per hour, then, at the end, telling you there is no job for you.