Job Discussion Forums

[clock sendak]

hello,

I've read a lot of the warnings (most of which seem to be just a lot of "back and forth") regarding EF and STAR, but in considering my situation, I wonder if they're really all that bad. I would only be going to china for 6 months (I'm applying to grad school and that would begin in October), and have no Toefl certificate (though I do have esl/overseas experience). So I'm wondering if someone wanted to go to china for six months, have enough income to enjoy themselves, do a bit of travelling, and leave something better than penniless, is it such a bad idea?

Also, what's the skinny on the various cities? I don't really know much about China, and feel that guidebooks are designed for shorter stays and don't give much info on general day to day life for expats. I've browsed the boards and found only the occasional posting. I'm looking for somewhere you can have a bit of nightlife/cultural scene, though I'm not chasing the party. Shanghai and Beijing are obvious choices, but what about some of the smaller cities?

thanks.

[NathanRahl]

I have no idea why anyone would use a recrutier, sheer laziness is my only thought. You wish to come to China and teach? Well, just look on Daves china job board man, there are mre schools on there looking then you can shake a stick at.

As for where you teach, you want to be picky? You have zero qualifications, I think you should not be too picky. Shanghai, Beijing, someone with your lack of experience will find the worst job those two cities have to offer, and you won't save a dime because of how much they cost to live in. Some do manage to save, but they have qualifications and make decent local salaries.

Just check out which cities in china have over4 million people in them, most cities that large are going to have everything your looking for, though some a bit more then others. Do your research man, it would take you all of a couple hours. Oh, I forgot, you want to use a recruiter, and get others to do your work for you. Good luck.

[movinaround]

In practically any country outside of Korea, there is no reason to use a recruiter.

[clock sendak]

That's a wondeful attitude you take, Nate. I'm sure you're a very nice guy in person, and a wondeful model for your students, but you come across as a raging *beep* online. I have checked out the boards and sent off my resumes and cover letters. I also, as I mentioned, have very specific time constraints (which would have been addressed in any suitable answer to my question) that make me ineligible for most individually listed schools, as they are usually looking for at least a one year contract. My question was not whether recruiters are good, my question was whether or not the particular circumstances I was in made it worth considering. As I have only heard back from EF and START (and not any of the individual schools as of yet) I can only consider what I've been offered.

thoughts?

[upchuckles]

Half the people on this board who tell you not to use a recruiter will recruit you for their school or someplace else..

Don't worry mate, there's a lot of folks going through programs and using reputable recruiters. After wading through most of the BS here, I chose to use a recruiter and I haven't regretted a single day of it.

Lazy? If you mean by them handling all aspects of travel, visa and other services had I not used them, then yeah.. I'm lazy.. My 16 hours per week 5,000 RMB job isn't too bad either.

If you're doing a one semester gig, you'll end up doing four, cause this semester is short.

Have fun!

[Steppenwolf]

You know, clock sendak, it may be your track record; you have probably seen too much the insides of schools and you want to see something different, right?
I feel taking a 6-month job in a developing country is a bit dicey for you. You want to experience a big city with "culture" as well as "nightlife"; to me that sounds like a contradiction! You will see that when you set foot on the concrete territory of any Chinese city!
I don't want to discourage you but in your situation, I for one would not want to be a wage slave in a country I don't know at all.
I would want to explore it on my own, not earning money while there but actually spending money to get to know it.

Still, if you feel like using the services of a recruiter, I would recommend BUCKLAND in Yangshuo; they are not likely to bar you from jobs even if you only want to pitch in for a semester. It's ATTITUDE that matters to them most of all. If you have the right one they might consider you! st people that have worked for them are highly motivated and satisfied after their experience! But you will hardly end up teaching in Shanghai! Perhaps a 500'000 inhabitant backwater - but that would be an eye-opening experience for you!

[clock sendak]

I've received a contract from start that seems to avoid some of the oft-described pitfalls (one hour equals 60 minutes, not 40 for example). I'm concerned about "peak season" and whether the terms of this contract (unsigned email attachment as it is) are valid at all.

the school is an EF school in Jiaxin, Zhejiang province, since it's only 5-6 months they are only willing to provide one way airfare, they (with receipts) will refund any travel/accomodations costs for "off site" work as they call it. I dunno, it seems to counter all of the usual problems listed, but maybe the scam has just gotten more intricate. The pay offered is 5,000 - 6,000 RMB a month net. What would "shared accomodation" mean? Two people in a two bedroom apt? I guess I don't really have very high standards because I understand that I don't have real qualifications, and I'm just looking for something to fill the time in a more interesting way until I go to graduate school. How bad can it be when it's only six months? I guess what worries me most is whether or not I'm gonna reach the nd of my time there and find there was some loophole that doesn't get me airfare costs (even partial ones are better than none) or requires that I pay some exhorbitant tax, or something like that.

and what to make of all this document sending? Do I send copies of passport and degree? It seems a common enough request (schools in Mexico as well ask for it) to make it less suspicious (I mean, they're not asking for money).

sorry for length.

thanks

[clock sendak]

[Malsol]

To the OP:

If you could do 6 months hard time in a maximum security prison, then 6 months with EF is no sweat and probably just the experience you need.

[clock sendak]

you think you could be a little more specific and less sensationalistic?

[Malsol]

GO FOR IT, IT'S ONLY SIX MONTHS.

[clock sendak]

funny, that's the same font the contract came in...

[NathanRahl]

First off don't be so sure I am a nice guy in person, I can be a real shithead, I never claimed to be otherwise. I will offer you some helpful advice though, you seem to need it badly.

First off, you said graduate school, does this mean you have a Bachelors degree? If so, you can get a good job, experience don't mean dick in that regard. Great jobs yes, good ones, no.

Second, don't go to work for someone if they want to give you a "shared" apartment. This arrangement sucks, and you have no idea who they will pair you up with. I once knew a guy who shared a flat with another, and it was only 40 or 50 square meters, if that. Thats a closet by the way, you have to live there, and you have to live there for 6 months after all. Insist on your own pad, if they don't give it to you, you walk.

You said 5000-6000 a month, for how many hours a week? 16? 5,000 for 16 is ok, 5,000 for 20-25 is not. You want to burn out, work 20 plus hours a week. Make sure you find something under 20 hours a week that pays atleast 5,000 a month, or more if you can find it.

Not having seen the contract, I have no idea what it says. However, it makes me suspicious. I don't know of any schools that just pay your ticket, whatever it cost, one way or both ways. There is almost always a set amount, the cap is around 8,000 rmb for both ways right now, unless your working at a rare and stellar school, and I mean rare. Likely they are offering 4,000 rmb, maybe less for one way. When they say one way, they often don't include what exactly they pay for one way. I consider this a lie of omission, they call it a misunderstanding. Ask how much they pay, I think you'll find it won't cover the cost of your ticket to get here.

Don't apologize for the length, many blowhards here, myself included on occassion, make far far longer posts, that say a lot less.

You need to ask a lot more quesitons before you go ahead. I have heard mixed things about start, and Buckland should be avoided like the plague, don't know who actually recommended them, yikes.

You really need to give more specifics, but from what I heard, I would not pursue it unless you get your own digs. Trust me, you don't wish to have "shared" accomodations here, believe me. Good day.

[mondrian]

Do your homework first!
It WILL pay you in the end, so that you don't spend a miserable at best, and catastrophic at worst, six months in an alien land.
Make a list:
job: where will you be working? one site or more? If more than one, how far apart and how you get between sites? What transport will be provided? Is the time factored into your contact hours?
hours that you work: contact hours (1 "hour" = 60 minutes) or class hours (1 "hour" = 40/50 minutes depending on the age of the students taught)
overtime: how much per "hour" and how often (really try to nail them on this one)?
apartment: provided/not provided? If not, how much rent allowance (low side 800 RMB a month/ top side 2000RMB a month) and ALL the restrictions on the use of the apartment (deposit, key money, etc). Many external landlords (if you have to find your own) deal in 6 month rentals, so you'll be OK there. But will you get help in finding one.
If on campus, any restrictions? curfews (yes, they are common here, especially if the campus has student accommodation as well); no "male/females" after 11 pm rule!
teaching: text-book or improvised? assessment (who does it and how frequently)?
independant information: you MUST try and get the views of past/present teachers for these; NOT the DOS! What is the town/city like (cos you will get some free time!)?
That is just the beginnings of your list!! Trawl Dave's for even more.

[clock sendak]

Thanks to the both of you for all the advice. I will look into it further and let you know if I have any questions.

cheers