Job Discussion Forums

[jennjenn]

I'm graduating with a B.A. in May and am considering coming to VN to get my CELTA, then teach for a year. I'm a Viet Kieu and have never ever been to VN (nor any other country in the world). I can speak (very) minimal Vietnamese but can understand it when people are speaking to me.

My dad is begging me not to go to VN because he says the government is going to screw me over and then toss me in prison. I said that since I'm American I won't have to deal with that, and he said no, since I'm not a "real" American it doesn't matter. He's a refugee. He absolutely does not want me to go there, at all, ever, unless he's with me and we're doing the tourist thing.

Does he have a valid point? I'm not asking about discrimination in hiring practices. I'm wondering about my personal safety in everyday life. I have common sense and won't be attracting attention to myself. What gives?

[ChuckECheese]

Listen to your father. You will be discriminated against at schools and may be treated like locals here or even worse.

If you do get a teaching gig, the local teachers and staff will treat you like a black sheep.

Based on what I saw, locals here are very mixed about Viet Kieu's, some people like them for their money (if you're rich) and others hate them for various reasons and often discriminated against (and even worse if you don't speak the language).

[lizarddoctor]

lol, that is one of the same questions I asked myself 3 years ago and the response I got from people at home were the same. "It's not safe" because of the instant thought back to the VN war. I was coming from Korea (which by the way isn't the safest modern day country to be a foreigner on a daily basis, and even less so if your stupid enough to go to districts where the AFN network tells you there are anti-western protests happening) and my vision of Asians in general wasn't the most positive.

As fas as hiring practices go, you will face quite a different set of barriers than most people go since your VietKieu (please research a few other threads and sources for that).

As far as your person, you are more likely to get hurt if you decide to drive a motorbike here on your own vs. any physical harm from someone else or the gov't. Your father is just being over-protective from his own experience, but way too paranoid and his fears are just that, his own fears. You have nothing to worry about. Hire a xe-om though, let the Vietnamese drive.

You would be better off not speaking any Vietnamese from the experience of my VietKieu friends unless your with a tight circle of friends and family if you want personal respect also. Not a safety issue, but you will be judged differently if you are speaking Vietnamese and are butchering the modern language as I'm sure your father's VNese is the old (and quite out of date) version of the language here.

[ble21ach]

So it is not to your advantage to say that you're a native English speaker with proficient Vietnamese? I would think that since you can speak English fluently, and can converse in Vietnamese you would make a better teacher compare to westerners without knowledge of vietnamese.

Speaking from personal experience, will I be able to get a teaching position if I am Vietnamese American with a BA and TEFL certificate? Thank you for answering

[lizarddoctor]

It depends on how you look (and I am not being sarcastic in any way). If you look 'western' (aka white, black, non-asian) speaking Vietnamese can be a huge benefit (I sometimes do and am encouraged to do so in my elementary classes). Asian looking and speaking Vietnamese just cut your pay in half or more from everyone else and you have to fight an uphill battle just to get to the spot where you probably would have been if you had just kept your Vietnamese language to yourself.

IMPORTANT: If you look Asian, VietKieu especially, DO NOT SPEAK VIETNAMESE TO YOUR STUDENTS. Why would a school pay top rate to someone they can't physically market to parents to teach in Vietnamese when they could be paying a near fluent English speaking Vietnamese peanuts for the same position. You will find yourself on the short end of the stick in the long run and may lose your position. It has happened to others. Again, looking 'western' is actually an employment benefit in trying to communicate in Vietnamese. Other industries is a different story, but you are on an ESL forum and the statement above is just how it is for schools.

Keep your Vietnamese to yourself and you will find some work for sure, the Asian looking barrier isn't something you can keep to yourself though. Just accept the simple fact that you will have more difficulty than most and don't get bent out of shape when you see it happen. And again please do research other threads and sources for that information as it is an exhausted topic and this is supposed to be a thread on safety in coming here.

[jennjenn]

I did do a search, but only found info on discriminatory hiring practices. As I stated, that is not what I am concerned about (at this moment, anyway).

Thank you for the info. I suck at Vietnamese and am better off not speaking it, period, as I tend to butcher any version of it, new or old. In other words, I'm far from proficient.

So Chuck, if I'm a poor VK that only understands the language enough to know if I'm getting ripped off, would I be in a good position?

[ChuckECheese]

[Mr Wind-up Bird]

Apollo & RMIT recruit VK & treat them equally, so might be worth looking at those places. More & more VK are coming back now, and as Chuck says, if schools have any sense they'll recruit them as teachers. I'd rather have my kids taught by a qualified VK than some backpacker who couldn't give a toss about his adopted "profession".

[slug93]

I'm VK from US(Orange County/San Diego), VN students(and parents) dont seem to think VK as "AMERICAN".. they think we(VK) are OVERSEAS VN.. NO MATTER if you are born or raised in US.. to local VN.. you are still VN(who HAPPENS to live overseas).. So they will initially think you CANNOT speak english as a native speaker or dont know english as well as a "native-speaking, white" person..

I sub for one class at my school, and the students asked me where i was from? I told them US.. California.. They said.. I didnt LOOK like an AMERICAN! HAHA.. I asked them, what does an "American" look like? They replied with descriptions, big nose, blond, round eyes, etc., So I asked them if they ever heard of Michael Jackson or Michael Jordan? Of course they did! they replied.. I asked, "ARE THEY AMERICANS?" they thought about it for a second and replied "YES!".. but i said.. "there's not white or blond?".. the student were silent..

So I asked if they ever heard of Yo Yo Ma or Lucy Liu(Charlies Angel).. they heard of Lucy Liu but NOT Yo Yo Ma.. I asked again, is she an American? They said yes. I told them that Americans come in all flavors!They got the point.. I also reminded them that in top US college CAL, Standford, Ivy's, etc., Asian-American students make up upward of 30-40% at some of the schools.. Heck Berkley has around 40% asian-american, and Cornell has about 20-25%. An all those Asian-American students speak perfect english..

But to the VN student credit, once they see you in the classroom, and that you can TEACH well. Then being a VK no longer matters, now you are a "GOOD" teacher. Couple advice I'll give for VK is DONT speak VN(no matter how little) in CLASS or even in SCHOOL AND try to have a "ENGLISH" name(Jennifer, Ben, Tom, etc.,). If you actually get interviewed then you have a very good shot(if qualified) to get hired.
VATC and some other schools, have and will hired VK. You should expect and get the same pay(crappy) that foreign teacher gets. All the foreign teacher at my school get 12 USD/hr, which is what i got. VATC offer me 14USD/hr again, same as new foreign teachers.

Interestingly, being a VK is an ADVANTAGE when it comes to business or other NON-TEACHING field. I only teach about 10 hrs a week, but I do lots of business. In Business, being a VK has benefits and given me a competive edge with VN customers. When I speak English or VN(broken VN) to them, they recognize that I am INDEED from US and therefore, my products or advice is NOT "fake" and REALLY comes from US. PLUS I can understand the "CULTURE" more and they can communicated with me BETTER.

[slug93]

ohh.. Being a VK in VN, with the police you are better than local but you are below non-asian foreigner when i comes to dealing with the police. a local can get away with paying a small fine for infractions, a foreigner sometimes have to pay a bigger fine OR no fine at all. VK generally cannot get out of it and will not get the local "rate".

As women, you have to be careful of motobike thieves going after purses. But other than that, you wont have any problem. I've visited colombia and peru before coming to VN, and VN to me is VERY SAFE. Also as VK if you have family in VN, then you should stay with them AT FIRST, you can get your own place later on. If your family is well connected then you can take advantage of that network and connection. In VN, connection is king, so develop it(with fellow teacher, friends, and family) and nuture it.

[slug93]

I only use vietnamese when i do PRIVATE tutoring.. never IN CLASS. When you have privates session, you generally have a good rapport with the students and therefore use VN WHEN the student has a hard time grasping something in PURE ENGLISH. This is to help the student understand it quicker not a crutch because you cant explain it in english.

Example, in english we have GERUND(ing's) to use for continuous tenses, BUT VN langauge doesnt have "ing's", it uses the word "dang" which translate into "presently/currently" in English. for FUTURE cont.. it's "se" or will.

I'm WORKING at the office now = DANG(presently) LAM VIEC(work) o(at) van phong(office) bay gio(NOW)

I'll be WORKING tomorrow at the office = se(will) lam viec(work) ngay mai(tomorrow) o(at) van phong(office)

so there's an advantage to knowing VN and english, when it comes to teaching english. BUT i only use it with my private students AND even with them I DONT use VN very much, only when they are REALLY STUCK. Why should school/student pay for english lessons when the teachers is speaking VN, they are paying to hear you speak ENGLISH and teach them to SPEAK/PRONOUNCE ENGLISH.

[ble21ach]

Thanks for sharing your experience. The posts are extremely useful.

[jennjenn]

Hey great info slug. Thanks!

[mononoaware]

I can't speak from the point of view of a VK, but I do have a handful of VK friends and I think they'd all agree that your dad's fears are totally unfounded. True, you'll probably face some discrimination, whether blatant or subtle. But your personal safety is no more threatened than anyone else here.

You don't have to worry too much about physical violence in VN. If you're female (esp. if it's at all evident that you've got money), you may experience someone trying to snatch your bag/cell phone. It's happened to me and THREE white female friends/coworkers and one Vietnamese friend. The worst it gets is someone going far enough to grab at you while you're on a motorbike, which is needless to say potentially very dangerous.

I've also known people to have their homes robbed. Again, you're more of a target if you're white than VK.

I seriously doubt you'll have any problems beyond that (with the police or anyone) unless you're actively provoking them. Hope that helps!

[sethness]

I'd like to pursue what the posters are saying about "don't use VN in the school".

Here in Japan, I freely use Japanese sound-alike words to give people an easy memory aid-- otherwise, an English word or phrase might be as hard to remember as a random babble.

As an example, let's turn it around and imagine that you're an English speaker learning a foreign language. If you heard the foreign word "Doitashimashite" without any memory aid, you'd probably have difficulty remembering it. On the other hand if you also remembered that it sounds a bit like the English phrase "Don't touch my moustache", you'd probably have far far less difficulty remembering it.

Test yourself. Try to remember these two words today, and see which one you remember best tomorrow:

Anata means "you".
Watashi means "I". Remember that it sounds like "What a SHE!". Imagine yourself looking at yourself in a mirror, wearing a ballroom gown, long hair, and makeup. (Especially if you're a GUY-- the more shocking the image is, the better you'll remember it.)

Would that kind of L1 language use be frowned upon in Vietnamese language schools?