Job Discussion Forums

[NathanRahl]

I've been looking for some extra work to do on my weekends, and talked to a gentlman who set me up for some part time work, which was great. Now the pay was pretty average for the area, not great, but not bad either.

Then when I get there I find out I'll be teaching 3 more classes then I thought, and the guy who found me the position, calling himself a broker, says the school only pays by the actual "hour", not by the class hour.

I know this is bunk, but I have heard employers try to use this before to weasel you into wokring extra hours, always why I was very clear in my contract about class hours being the wording, or the number of classes, and not the amount of "hours".

My question is, does anyone else here pick up some extra part time work from school, and if so, do you have this bupkiss pulled on you, or i it just me. It ticks me off to begin with that the fellow lied by omission, never mentioning how many actual classes, when I heard 12 hours I figured class hours, my mistake.

If this is standard, I'd say it is bull, though realy I just think it is standard them tryig to get away with such nonsense, it is just some not knowing any better that allows them to do so.

I say, you work your class, thats a clas hour, all this talk about, by the actual hour is just another way to pay those of us who work our butts off and care about teaching a lower wage. I mean really, how cheap can you get when your making 1,500 or 2,000 for 40 minutes and you try to shylock a guy out of what in comparison is chump change, bad mojo I say. I am thinking it is this broker fellow though, though of course he says the schol is paying him by the hour, not by the number of classes I work, hence he skims a little off the top, and then "he" pays me.

Anyhow, I've had schools try to pull this stuff in contracts, but this is a new twist, anyone else experiece this, your input is welcome.

[Sugarcandy Mountain]

Welcome to China, Nathan. Scams-R-US.

Don't believe anything they tell you, out there, or what you read here on Dave's.

Lucky.

Most of the readers are "ben".

[eslstudies]

A standard I did was company work, class from [say] 4 to 6 with a 10 minute break, 2 hours pay.
sounds like a mill you're at?

[movinaround]

This is pretty standard actually, in many countries with big chains and small schools. This fools a lot of people, including me my first time at AEON in Japan. I do find it a little dishonest when they don't mention it, but in the end, it was still my fault for not asking and I just took it as I had signed the contract.

[clark.w.griswald]

I agree with you on this one Nathan and I think that it is a good warning to give to others. I like your distinction between 'hour' and 'teaching hour' as this should help to clarify things.

To me a job offering 100RMB per hour for twelve hours of work means that I should receive 12x100RMB, not just a portion of that hourly wage according to the proportion of the hour actually spent teaching. The school knows up front how long your teaching hour will be, and therefore they know how much you will get paid. If the figure of 100RMB per hour is only a theoretical figure then it is certainly misleading for a school to use that when advertising the job. Perhaps the best way to check this before signing up is to do some quick math with the school: "So you are giving me 12 hours of work at 100RMB an hour so that means that I will be paid RMB1200. Right?" Sounds pretty silly but it could help to avoid these sorts of situations.

There was a similar discussion to this a while back about what an hour of teaching really means. Some schools will consider that one hour is 60 minutes, while others have it scheduled as 45 minutes. This is a the sort of small detail that is easy to overlook when accepting a position, but is important as it can mean that you end up doing 25% more work for no extra money if things are not in your favor.

[Itsme]

To make things simple, ask over the phone if you are being paid by class or by hour.

Then restate the EXACT question 2 to 3 times within the same conversation to make sure.

Make sure you have a calculator at hand to do the math or just do it in your head for extra bonus points.

[cj750]

the distinction is usually class periods which can mean a 45 min session ..so that you are not paid for the breaks..EF pulls this one...as well as a host of others...therefore they can advertise 130RMB per hour when your actually pay will be based on 45 min. sessions..

[jammish]

I ran into this in Wuhan too. At the school where I worked, we had optional extra classes on Sundays, which paid 100 RMB per hour, and that 'hour' was only 40 minutes, which is all well and dandy. An agency in Wuhan which sometimes rang me to offer me other extra work elsewhere was also offering 100 per hour, but that was for a FULL hour. With the travelling etc it was hardly ever worth bothering.

[Brian Caulfield]

Get paid by the day don't let them pay you by the month . This protects you from being ripped off at the end of the contract . Don't be afraid to raise your salary . Work it out so that you are making what is described in the original agreement . Chinese don't respect you if you let them rip you off .

[NathanRahl]

Let me explain, I did not sign a contract, this was just some extra part time work. I got the job through an agent, whos specialty is farming you out to schools for part time work, thats all he does. Someone gets sick, they call this guy, that kind of deal.

Now like I said, I know he's getting paid something, but what he offered to pay me was fair and standard for the area. I made an assumption when he said you'll be paid for "12" hours, to mean twelve class hours. Then boom, I go in, and find out my first day it is 9 classes, and the next day 6, a good bit of work for two days. I do the math, and yes, it's coming out well less then what I should be getting.

The guy says that A, he did not kno how many classes up front, just how many hours, and that B, he is not getting that much, so he can't afford to pay me much more. Turns out the not much he isn't geting is close to 30% of what I am getting, lol. Just for having someone call him and then he calls me. Hey lifting a phone aint that hard, I think he's getting a little overpaid.

Finally he agreed to throw me some more money, but really, why must there be so much deception.

To the person who said welcome to china, lol, I know they are in large part dishonet in their business dealings, at least as dishonest as you let them be, this is by no means new or unexpected, so please, none of the welcome to china crap.

In the end I got, close, to what I should be getting on this job. I have no problem with this fellow getting a 10 percent finders fee, thats what your average employment agency in america gets in relation to what you make. However, nearly three times that is ridicules, I do all the work, and you get almost a third for picking up a phone, just don't add up.

In the future I will be getting paid by the class I think, however, most people don't know enough to catch this scam, or do anything to get what is fair pay. Hopefully this post will awaken some folks to this. If you insist with them, and make a stink, they will usually give in, part time teachers are often harder to find then full time.

As for the fellow who placed me there, in one of our last conversations he tried to plead poverty by saying "They send me an invoice, and because they do I must pay a 5% tax" so as to make me think he is not getting enugh to be able to afford much more. This struck me as typical BS, invoice? While it is possible, after how this fellow tried to play me, I am not inspired to trust too much.

Part timers out there, and those looking to sign contracts, make sure your contract states classes, not hours, and if your working part time, make sure your being paid by the "class hour" otherwise your just getting played. Later.

[Neilhrd]

Most of the mills in Nanning use one or other variation of this scam. The objective is usually to fool the parents into thinking they are paying for a real clock hour's teaching whilst at the same time short changing the FT by giving him a 40 minute class and paying 2/3rds of the salary.

Incidentally it is also common to expect the FT to cover a syllabus based on real hours in 2/3rds of the time and then blame him if the students don't complete the book and the parents complain. This can be very frustrating as it nearly always leads to unpleasant compromises between what the students really need to know and the demands of the DOS/school owner to finish the book regardless of whether the students actually understand it.

The only way to be sure what the contract really means is to ask the same questions over and over again in slightly different ways and see if you get the same answers. If the answers are vague, contradictory or non existent walk away. Better still ask existing FTs at the school what there real take home pay is.

[Sgt Killjoy]

It's a common scam the world over. The contracts are worded in hours and they count a 45 minute lesson as 0.75 hours. It's not right and it's not fair. That 20 hour a week contract can turn into a 27 classes per week.

[NathanRahl]

Fortunantly I was well informed about this because of the first scammer who actually got me to come to china. I ended up not taking the job, fortunantly, but discovered a great deal about about the bad side of ESL. I talked to someone who still worked for this Horrible person called Ms. Liu, who ran one of the worst agencies in china by my count, out of a little town in Jilan province called Meiko or something like that. Turns out that, while he signed a contract for no more then 22 hours, he was teaching 28 classes a week, and not to happy.

Not all schools do this, but many will try if your not informed as to the difference. Where I work it is clearly stated how many "classes" I'll be teaching, not "hour". If they won't put in classes instead of hours, means you don't wish to work for them. If it's a decent school they still may try this, but will compromise and not try to stiff you. If not, go elsewhere, plenty of jobs out there.

As to the part time deal, which involves no contract, you just have to know how to negotiate, and be firm. This guy who ran this scam on me gave me every excuse in the book, but in the end I cornered him. He could have decided not to pay me. Truth is though, those who find part timers will always have weeks where they can not find enough teachers to fill all of the openings that pop up. If he doesn't use you, he loses money, whatever deal he makes with you. If he won't compromise, which would be foolish of him, (however most chinese businessmen refuse to think long term) then simply go elsewhere, tons of part time jobs out there.

I think this problem is the same as the one with the often poor pay for us in relation to what the school makes, being misinformed in mny cases, and to many people just taking the jobs without complaints. I think this scam is easier to deal with though if more spoke up, because of how it is so much more blatantly dishonest. The school charges per class, they should pay per class, and most good schools do. It is only the ones who are so greedy that they can't see the big picture who do this.

[Gregor]

I encountered this phenomenon for the first time in China, but what I don't understand is how this is a scam. It works out to MORE money, doesn't it?
The school where I work pays by what they call the "academic hour," which is 45 minutes long. So I make, say, 100RMB per 45 minutes, not per 60 minutes. That extra 15 minutes adds up rather quickly. Yes, you might end up working more "ac hours" than you wanted, but it's less actual time.

[Steppenwolf]

So glad to see a post by GREGOR! You have been missed much of the time, buddy!
But one thing in your post is a little misleading: most FTs actually do get DECEIVED by the wishwashi language used in describing their input.
You would hear "we pay you 150 an hour" (common here in Guangzhou); you begin your job and quickly realise they meant it literally: 150 per 60 minutes.
No any two periods are back to back! You may have a break of 20 minutes - for which you will not be remunerated! Say, your class begins at 9:10 a.m., two periods straddling the mid-morning long break, each period lasting 45 minutes:
you leave the school at 11 a.m. and will have made only 225 kuai! And you will have spent a full two hours there (you arrive early and you depart late...).