Job Discussion Forums

[Mark]

Hi folks, I've seen a few job ads for Harbin and I wanted to check the facts with you.

First of all, any impressions of the place? I know it's freezing in winter, but I'm Canadian, so I think I can take it.

An ad I looked at claimed Harbin had the most standard Mandarin in the country. It also claimed that Harbin was the friendliest and most beautiful city in China. Is there any truth to these claims? They seem somewhat unlikely to me.

Cheers.

[HunanForeignGuy]

Yes, Mark is very, very, very cold in the winter but as a Canadian you are probably used to it. It's about the same weather as in Montreal (where I lived for a while) and in Harbin (where I also lived for a while).

The people in Harbin are relatively straight-forward speaking. If they have something on their minds, they will usually speak it as is. In that sense, they are very easy for a North American to deal with. Here in Southern China, it's a bit like Japan. You always have to wonder what the real meaning of anything is and often you will never find out.

If you ask someone from Beijing, they will say surely "no" but honestly-speaking, Harbin "putong-hwa" is probably the best in the country. There is no true local Harbin dialect, which is something unusual in China but remember, in terms of being a city, Harbin was essentially an artificial creation of the Transiberian Railroad Company about 120 years ago. Harbinites do have a very, very very proper "r-hwa" to their Mandarin which is a bit like "received refined" British pronunciation. Once you have heard and been surrounded by Harbin "putong-hwa" for a period of time, all other variations of Mandarin in China will sound ... well ... substandard (forgive me the rest of China for this remark).

Architectually-speaking, it's a true jewel of a city and very, very walkable, albeit in January and in February. A small but still quite noticeable number of Russians have returned to once what an essentially Russian city. The only open and functioning Orthodox Church in all of China is in Harbin and there are numerous Catholic churches that are open as well as one synagogue. Harbin did suffer a considerable amount of damage to its outstanding architectural monuments during the Cultural Revolution but amends are being made by the current city fathers. The very historic wooden Cathedral of St. Nicholas, destroyed in the middle of the night by the vandals of that time, will be rebuilt at city expense. The one remaining Russian cemetery is well-tended to and most of the historic 19th century buildings that have survived are being "gazetted", meaning placed on the National Historic Register.

Foreigners in Harbin either hate it or like it -- there is nothing in the middle.

Harbin food is great -- the dumplings are probably the best in China and the local Harbin beer, which you can buy for about 1.25 RMB a bottle, is superb -- I don't mean the Harbin beer that is exported to the rest of the country but the local market brand.

I have a cousin from Canada who went to Harbin to teach over 3 years ago. He originally went for six months and that against his family's wishes. Almost four years later, he is still there and quite enjoying it.

It depends upon the school, too, because there are shyster schools in Harbin just as everyone else and a few very notorious ones. Keep me posted in a PM and I will endeavor to help you.

All the best,


HFG

[mondrian]

I think that I have visited most of the cities in the NE of China. I concur with the other poster's remarks, but have to say that Harbin, though architecturally and culturally unique is NOT the most beautiful city in this part of China.
THAT expression is reserved for Dalian, as you will endlessly hear from the lips of all of its citizens/students!

[Mark]

Thanks for the info. I currently live in Tokyo, Japan, but I've been thinking about moving to a Mandarin-speaking area. There's Taipei, obviously, but in searching Chinese cities, Dalian seemed like a good choice for me. Then I saw some job ads for Harbin and started to think about that.

I imagine that life in Dalian would be easier as it's more international, less isolated, and the weather isn't quite as bad. But, hey, Harbin might be okay too.

Do you have any thoughts on differences between the two? Or do you think it's a mistake to focus on the Northeast rather than on the heartland?

Thanks.

[HunanForeignGuy]

Mark, I don't agree with Mondian, whom I respect for his great postings, on this issue.

Dalian has become over-touristed, and along the beach front, highly commercial.

As for more international, your assumption is completely wrong. Dalian has POCKETS of international while Harbin is imbued with international. Even the Chinese will tell you that Harbin is hardly a Chinese city. They call it a Russian / German / International city. I myself think about going back.

Next, yes, the weather is severe but if you are working in a state school, you will have an extremely long winter holiday and you can escape south. Down south, I will have 40 days of winter holiday this year; my cousin up north will have 70 days. See the difference? And they are paid up north for the winter holiday in its entirety (as are we). The difference is that the school year in Harbin will end at the end of July and start again in September. There are trade-offs.

Now don't by any means think that the weather is balmy in Dalian. In the summer, yes, it surely can be and the population of the city increases by several million as anyone in Northern China who can escape to Dalian does so. But the winters are still quite nasty by all means.

Harbin has about 6,000,000 persons in the metropolitan area (4,500,000 in the city itself) and Dalian is merely a big village compared to that. So yes, if you are coming to China for an endless run of KFCs, McDonald's, Pizza Hut, Sizzler Steak Houses, and all that western glut, coupled with an unending need to only meet the same foreigners again and again, then Dalian is perfect for you. But what a shame as you will miss the soul of China.

Both cities were founded by the Russians and then taken over by the Japanese -- Harbin was always called Harbin and Dalian was called Dairen and is close to Port Arthur.

The "putong-hwa" is unmistakably of a better quality in Harbin as Dalian has a Dombei-twang to its "putong-hwa".

Your choice. If you are a country boy from Saskatchewan or the other boonies of Canada, choose Dalian. If you are a Montreal or Toronto dude, you should consider Harbin.

All the best.

[Mark]

Thanks HNF,

Harbin certainly sounds like the place to go in NE China. I'm glad I stumbled across that info about it, as I never would have thought of going there otherwise. I'm sure that it would be much more popular if it weren't for the weather.

And, I'm a mixture of Toronto and Vancouver, although mostly Vancouver these days. So, a relaxed city by the water is very appealing (which is why I originally was thinking about Dalian).

Anyway, thanks for the help and it's all food for thought at this point. If I decide on Northeast China, I think I'll aim for Harbin.

[laowaigirl]

I went to Harbin at Chinese New Year a couple of years ago. There are some great things about the city -- it is definitely walkable, not like Beijing with its huge city blocks. I would also say it's charming, and of course they have the very famous ice sculpture festival every winter, which is certainly something to see. The best part of this is that they make long slides out of ice that you ride down on little crates! So much fun. We were a bunch of college kids acting like 10 year olds. And I totally agree with the guy who said the beer was great -- some of the best I had in China. And I drank a lot of beer in China!

Everybody seems to be making pretty light of the cold, but I'm going to weigh in with my opinion of it. You may be ok with it. But I thought it was hell! I'm from upstate NY and I have been to Canada (Toronto, Montreal) in the dead of winter, and I don't think I've ever been as cold as I was in Harbin. Again, you might be fine. But I was miserable. I'm not saying that no one should go there, but I do want you to know that it's freezing! If you want to work there, just know that you will need to spend a little extra time getting dressed to go outside everyday in the winter. I think I wore almost everything I had with me at all times -- we're talking layers of clothes so thick I couldn't even see my toes. Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit. But you do need to wear many layers and lots of socks!

But all said, it is a nice city and very friendly. Good luck!

[HunanForeignGuy]

Laowaigirl is on the mark regarding the weather and forgive me if I came across as making light of it.

It is cold, beyond a shadow of a doubt. November to the middle of March is just bitter. There is no way around it. I used to wear two-or-three pair of long underwear, two or three pair of socks, heavy pants, maybe a sweater or two, etc. and huge fur coat (I hate to say it) to ward off the cold.

Every morning before leaving I would have a quick glass of Chinese brandy and another glass when I got home.

[laowaigirl]

HFG, that's what I should have done! If only I could go back in time to drink more!

[HunanForeignGuy]

Laowaigirl,

Are you in the City? I was grew up on Madison and 93rd Street, just off of Fifth, between Fifth and Madison. That was a long time ago.

Next, from one New Yorker to another, if you are thinking of returning here, let me know. I'd be glad to put you in touch with some people who haven't heard of these blanket rules that Bayden is spouting about. You should have NO problem getting a job here at all. (I hope that you have a university degree though).

And yes, it was great brandy. I still buy a bottle-or-two every winter and I only pay RMB 36 for the top line VSOP.

All the best,


HFG

[sultansofping]

i lived in harbin for a good while, its not a bad place to stay
the beer is good enough, but weak since it is a chinese beer but you from north american should be used to that
the people are cool enough
the place is bloody cold but inside everywhere is boiling hot since they have the boliers running all day
the city is interesting, a b ut polluted during the winter what witha ll the coal burning
and the ice fesitival is cool, but see it once then it gets boring
lots of cool shops for dvds etc, a few western style supermarkets.i think they have 4/5 walmarts, and there is one street with 4 KFcs
the nitlife is shitty enuff, lots of young russians who are wanabbie gangsters, can get annyoing at times, but lots of good bars to do yourown thing
food and restaurants are brill, hot pot during winter is a must
yeah harbin isnt a bad place to see, go for it

[Mark]

Is there much of a Japanese presence in Harbin? How about Dalian?

[HunanForeignGuy]

[DistantRelative]

Just "googled" it. Wow!!!!


Zhuhao,

Shawn

[Mark]

HFG, Wow that was quite the response. I appreciate the help you've given me so far and I don't want to be rude, so I'll just try to respond to your points.