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jobe3x
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 45
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 Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:52 pm Post subject: Newbie Questions |
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Hi, I'm currently thinking about a career in ESL teaching overseas. I was wondering what is good way to get started.
I've already got a BA in Business.
Should I get a CELTA Certification and teach overseas?
Or should I just go overseas to teach?
Also, when I should I consider getting a masters? Should I wait and get two years of experience under my belt? |
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SweetOne
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I would recommend getting the certification where you are and then deciding where you want to go. Of course, there are some places that will give you the certification at your new location, but that since I didn't go that route, I can't suggest it with any authority.
Have you thought about where you want to go? Overseas, as has been pointed out in many posts on this forum, is a very LARGE place. 
Good luck. |
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denise
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:13 am Post subject: |
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If you haven't taught before, I'd recommend doing a CELTA/TEFL so that you know what you're getting yourself into. Some schools/countries will require or request one, but even if they don't, you're better off with the training.
I do think you should do a bit of teaching before going back for a Master's. You'll be putting a considerable amount of time and money into an MA, so why not make sure that teaching is what you really, really want to do? I taught for two years before going back for an MA, and those two years not only convinced me that this was what I wanted to do, but they also gave me some practical experience to reflect on in my MA courses--it was nice to have something real and tangible (the experience) to balance and test all of the theories.
d |
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jobe3x
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:11 am Post subject: Newbie Questions |
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I'm looking into Asia as good place to start out.
I was thinking of China, Taiwan, or Japan.
I've heard a lot of negative things about South Korea. |
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dduck
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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My rule of thumb for this one is: how many teachers work there? Lots? Then it can't be all that bad, or most of them would have left by now.
Iain |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions |
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| jobe3x wrote: |
Hi, I'm currently thinking about a career in ESL teaching overseas. I was wondering what is good way to get started.
I've already got a BA in Business.
Should I get a CELTA Certification and teach overseas?
Or should I just go overseas to teach?
Also, when I should I consider getting a masters? Should I wait and get two years of experience under my belt? |
teaching in Korea Taiwan and Japan is EFL or teaching a foreign language. You will find the students teaching and methodology different than you would teaching back home
A good way to get started is decide which country interests you the most? the language culture and teaching environment is different in each of these countries. Which language would you like to learn, or feel most comfortable with learning? What are your short and long term goals in the field?
A Business degree is not much use for teaching EFL in Asia but you will be able to qualify for a work visa in Japan Taiwan and South Korea.
As for the Masters, I would second what Denise says, as getting a graduate degree is expensive (about $20,000 over 2-3 years), you will not be paid much extra for having one compared to the expense of acquiring it, and would only recommend it if you plan to stay in the field, teach at a high school or at a university where the higher paying jobs are.
get the CELTA first, decide if you like teaching enough to pursue a Masters degree and even think about a distance learning degree when you have developed some teaching skills and experience first. |
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jobe3x
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Newbie Questions |
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I really don't what are my short or long goals. Since I've never really experienced ESL teaching, I really can't say.
I guess my short term personal goals if do something different with my life. I really can kinda wandering around with no direction. I always enjoyed teaching adults as part of my job. I think I can translate those skills to kids.
I've got a love for asian culture or languages. I'm half chinese but you could never tell by outside appearance(I pass for a white man). So there's a longing in me to get in touch with heritage. I've been studying manadrin off and on for years but never got down being in middle of america.
So I guess it's kinda weird that I've thinking of going to Asia and leaving security of the states.
But you got one life to live, why not give a shot?
But if Dave can do it, so can I.
Would I benefit from getting a teachers certification or celta? |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:36 am Post subject: |
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If you have not taught before, get some kind of basic training. I assume that you have learnt a foreign languge so you might have some idea of what your students are going through when they are trying to get their skulls around English.
Leave the MA for later. 2 to 5 years experience, and also a decision by you that EFL/ESL is where you want to work. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions |
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| jobe3x wrote: |
I really don't what are my short or long goals. Since I've never really experienced ESL teaching, I really can't say.
I guess my short term personal goals if do something different with my life. I really can kinda wandering around with no direction. I always enjoyed teaching adults as part of my job. I think I can translate those skills to kids.
? |
well if you only have a short term goal I wouldnt think about sinking $20,000 and 3 years of your life into a Masters degree and then finding out teaching overseas long term is not for you. Better to think about getting a CELTA qualification (takes about a month to get) and a year or two of experience under your belt first
| jobe3x wrote: |
I really don't what are my short or long goals. Since I've never really experienced ESL teaching, I really can't say.
Would I benefit from getting a teachers certification or celta? |
Everyone has to start somewhere, I came to Japan with no experience or qualifications and Im still here 15 years later.
having some qualification is better than none, will not make you feel so clueless and ignorant in the beginning in front of a paying student or a class in Guangdong, China, and will give you the confidence that you actually feel you know what you are doing
| jobe3x wrote: |
I've got a love for asian culture or languages. I'm half chinese but you could never tell by outside appearance(I pass for a white man). So there's a longing in me to get in touch with heritage. I've been studying manadrin off and on for years but never got down being in middle of america.
? |
Dont quote me on this but I have heard that ABC (American Born Chinese ) have lots of trouble in China, Korea and Taiwan as the locals dont believe they are getting the real McCoy. They seem to like their bread white. Best check local websites to see what teachers in those countries say about teacher preferences. From my experience Japan is color blind and teachers are hired on ability, personality and not race. If you have a name like Chan or Lee etc it may make people question your English ability over there.
| jobe3x wrote: |
So I guess it's kinda weird that I've thinking of going to Asia and leaving security of the states.
? |
Personally if I were an American I would feel a lot safer over here than living in the US. I just saw the 'Bowling for Columbine' movie- nasty piece of work. Moving to another country is a big step but there are plenty of starbucks and McDonalds to keep you company if you get lonely. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Just as a matter of interest I thought I would add a link to a certified TESOL course in CELTA run by School of International Training in Kyoto Japan. This will give you an idea of whate teachers here undergo and what to expect in terms of content, cost etc.
http://homepage.mac.com/tesolkyoto/
Then you can decide if it sounds like something you may want to pursue at a later date |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| From my experience Japan is color blind and teachers are hired on ability, personality and not race. |
Do you really think so Paul? I don't necessarily agree with you, but it is much better here than when I was in Korea. I think many Japanese employers want Caucasian teachers because it looks good for their reputation. Certainly the more reputable the institution, the less likely they are to be discriminatory. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
Do you really think so Paul? I don't necessarily agree with you, but it is much better here than when I was in Korea. I think many Japanese employers want Caucasian teachers because it looks good for their reputation. Certainly the more reputable the institution, the less likely they are to be discriminatory. |
Like I said Im only speaking from my experience and my personal opinion- I know NOVA (though not reallyy reputable is the largets conversation school in Japan) for one doesnt discriminate about non-whites, as long as they have a visa and are native speakers of English. there is an American owned school in Osaka even that makes a point of hiring non-whites. The JET program also hires many 'minority' teachers as well.
You will get schools that dont hire non-whites but that can happen anywhere. The media is partly to blame as they put pretty boy Brad Pitts and Euan McGregor and Camron Diaz in their posters and TV commercials. Not a good way to promote racial diversity though its the students themselves who are not particular about the race of their teachers
FWIW I have a few friends teaching here that are japanese-Americans, Chinese Americans and even a few African Americans. I tend to get the impression that if show teaching ability, they have a degree for the visa, enthusiasm etc they can get jobs easier in Japan. As long as they speak native English they are usually accepted as the 'real thing' by students (but like I say thats only my personal opinion from what i read) I have not heard anything positive coming out of Korea, and I even heard of one non-white guy with a Western name who was accepted for a teaching position in Seoul and was then turned down when he sent his photo.
There is racism and discrimination in Japan like anywhere- I just think its a matter of degree. My guess is a Chinese American would have less problems here than if he tried to get a job in Taiwan or Seoul, IMHO because of what they believe a native speaker to be, and I think in general they tend to be a bit more conservative, and have less contact with foreigners in general.
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:59 am Post subject: |
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FWIW
Here is a fairly good site I know about that deals with teaching EFL in the above-mentioned countries. I only know about Japan so this site should help fill in the gaps.
http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~jonb/ |
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jobe3x
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Nope I don't think it will be an issue, I'm completly pass for being white. I don't have a chinese name. I'm half-chinese. My dad was white and my mother was chinese. I guess I didn't get chinese looks passed on to me. If I didn't tell you I'm chinese there's just no way you could guess.
So when go to Asia, I'll just not metion it and it shouldn't be issue.
Last edited by jobe3x on Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:11 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
Do you really think so Paul? I don't necessarily agree with you, but it is much better here than when I was in Korea. I think many Japanese employers want Caucasian teachers because it looks good for their reputation. Certainly the more reputable the institution, the less likely they are to be discriminatory. |
Like I said Im only speaking from my experience and my personal opinion- I know NOVA (though not reallyy reputable is the largets conversation school in Japan) for one doesnt discriminate about non-whites, as long as they have a visa and are native speakers of English. there is an American owned school in Osaka even that makes a point of hiring non-whites. The JET program also hires many 'minority' teachers as well.
You will get schools that dont hire non-whites but that can happen anywhere. The media is partly to blame as they put pretty boy Brad Pitts and Euan McGregor and Camron Diaz in their posters and TV commercials. Not a good way to promote racial diversity though its the students themselves who are not particular about the race of their teachers
FWIW I have a few friends teaching here that are japanese-Americans, Chinese Americans and even a few African Americans. I tend to get the impression that if show teaching ability, they have a degree for the visa, enthusiasm etc they can get jobs easier in Japan. As long as they speak native English they are usually accepted as the 'real thing' by students (but like I say thats only my personal opinion from what i read) I have not heard anything positive coming out of Korea, and I even heard of one non-white guy with a Western name who was accepted for a teaching position in Seoul and was then turned down when he sent his photo.
There is racism and discrimination in Japan like anywhere- I just think its a matter of degree. My guess is a Chinese American would have less problems here than if he tried to get a job in Taiwan or Seoul, IMHO because of what they believe a native speaker to be, and I think in general they tend to be a bit more conservative, and have less contact with foreigners in general.
[/i] |
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