Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Teaching on a tourist visa is that bad?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
roym



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend in Beijing who informed me that an Australian spent the last Christmas and New Year in jail for not having the correct visa whilst working.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arioch36



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said tea time. Again, the vast majority of problems seen on Dave's come from those who don't heed your words of wisdom. Again, well put.

Don't know if I buy this guy is really in the position he claims, but I guess that's besides the point. Getting an invitation letter and z visa are not onerus tasks, but key tasks


Last edited by arioch36 on Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a copy of a post today in the China Job Related forum:

flicknut wrote:
I came to Beijing on a tourist visa on December 26th. My school promised me that they could change my L visa to a Z visa through an agency.

Today my school told me that the PSB just changed the Z visa regulations for Beijing. My school says that I must go back to my home country during the spring festival holiday, get my visa, and then return to China.

Is it really necessary for me to fly back to the United States just to get a Z visa? I might as well just stay there.


I hope he made a good impression on his manager and now has the money to demonstrate his "flexibility" by flying across the globe at his own expense, on his holiday, to convenience his putative employer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
YAMARI



Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 247
Location: shanghai

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Candoguy wrote:
I just received this from English First:

We would like to invite you to participate in our Sponsored Teacher Training Program. The training programme is for the period commencing from June 21st 2008 and expiring on August 24th 2008.

During the development programme, you will be based in Shenzhen. You should have read, understood and agreed to abide by the Code of Conduct, Disciplinary Policy, Termination Policy, Work Manual, and Insurance terms as attached. These attachments form part of our Sponsorship Agreement. You will need to apply for an L visa before flying to China. Although the L visa is a tourist visa you can legally work as an intern for the duration of your stay.



So they're saying that it's legal to work on an L visa as long as you're classed as an intern. This is how they're getting around the problem of summer school teaching contracts.


English first are scum. when I worked an illegal weekend job for them they gave me the same students for four hours staight and then it was my fault the students got bored.
I had a z visa for another company and did weekend work for them. the schedules were to make money, not what was best for the students.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Tsuris



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Wasting My Life Away in China

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't matter one iota from a legal standpoint whether the teacher is called an intern, volunteer, consultant, adviser, guide, friendly foreigner, camp counselor, or goodwill ambassador. All that matters is whether the teacher will be paid a salary. Entering China on a Z-visa is legally required for earning income: it has absolutely nothing to do with title, function, or job role. If you were getting paid to do nothing more than just sit in an office for four hours a day so that parents can gaze at the white foreign monkey while visiting the school, you would still need a Z-visa even if your official title was "office decoration".

If they will be paying you for doing anything, including teaching, then entering China on a tourist visa is NOT legal. Assuming you will be paid for your time and service, English First is deliberately and knowingly lying to you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rmcdougall



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From experience, I will announce that if a teacher is coming over on a tourist visa to teach for a term, there will no evil consequences.

You will not meet your Waterloo for simply being flexible!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tsuris



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Wasting My Life Away in China

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmcdougall wrote:
From experience, I will announce that if a teacher is coming over on a tourist visa to teach for a term, there will no evil consequences.

You will not meet your Waterloo for simply being flexible!


Assuming entirely that the faithful traveler does in fact have a job and is not just being asked to fly to China at his own expense for what is nothing more than a glorified job interview (which happens ALL the time) AND the school, given the sensibilities and policies of the provincial PSB de jour, has the guanxi to convert that L-visa into a Z-visa and residency permit.

It's at best a giant leap of faith to be avoided by all but thrill seekers and gamblers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Itsme



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 624
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put my cards on the "just go; you will be fine" table.

Sure getting your z visa before you go is nice, as is having your apartment already rented and a taxi waiting for you at the airport.
Then there is making sure your shoes match and then washing your hands 3 times before wiping them with the green towel and then the red towel and then the green one again.

Just come to China on your tourist visa like the rest of us and then get it changed to a business visa or a z visa or go to school and get a student visa and then teach. It's as simple as that.

If you wait for all the starts to align just right you will get nowhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmcdougall wrote:
From experience, I will announce that if a teacher is coming over on a tourist visa to teach for a term, there will no evil consequences.

You will not meet your Waterloo for simply being flexible!


Can you guarantee that proclamation?

Or is that merely opinion based upon your experience, not to be confused with a universal fact?

Can those who have a different outcome after following your advice look forward to your providing financial indemnification?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
evaforsure



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1217

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is doing things the right way often leave you at a disadvantage....and no one is there to provide financial indemnification if you do things right and the employer still has a go at ya....


Quote:
Can you guarantee that proclamation?



NO more than you can guarantee that if a applicant does everthing right, their employer will treat them fair and provide all that is stated in the contract...it would be better to haggle a deal where as you come on a L and the company pays to send you to HK ... if they cant convert, but as of yet...most of the companies I have had the occaion to work with .. could and have converted employees from L to Z and then to RP.... this is the way I started and this is the way many others have started... but no one can offer any option as the one true way to insure you will have a good experience....but at least ..with a L visa..if you dont like the current situation ..you can move on....with a Z..ur just stuck...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Teatime of Soul



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only guarantee here is that if you come over on a proper visa, you'll be here legally from day one.

Now that is a guarantee.

But the shady recruiters, unlicensed schools and trolls on these forums will never guarantee to repay your costs if things go south.

The shady recruiters and crooked schools have to have a forum to advertise their reckless advice.

Where oh where on the Internet might they find a ready supply of gullible uninformed future teachers to dispense reckless advice?

But, we can put this theory to a test. Just ask anyone who advises you to come over illegally, how much out of their pocket they guarantee it will all go peachy.

Oh, that sound you'll hear, that's <crickets chirping>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tsuris



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Wasting My Life Away in China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: More Nonsense on Dave's Reply with quote

One of the biggest problems with arriving in China to earn income on a tourist or business visa, aside from the fact that it’s illegal, is that one is limited to those municipalities and provinces that are still willing to look the other way in regard to converting the L- into a Z-visa--and not all do. Why would anyone want to travel up to halfway around the world and then assume the risk of possibly having to return home to obtain the proper visa? Visa runs to Hong Kong are no longer a guaranteed option (never have been really), especially for American citizens. Once provided with the proper paperwork, obtaining a Z-visa is no more difficult, costly, or cumbersome than obtaining any other, and it does guarantee that the school you will be working for is licensed by the SAFEA to hire foreign experts. The moment your plane touches Chinese soil, that school is legally obligated to provide you with a job and look after you. Yes, even at SAFEA licensed schools, you may still have to wait one month for them to replace the broken water cooler in your apartment.

Being “stuck” has absolutely nothing to do with the visa type one arrived with. If you sign a contract, then, yes, you are committed to fulfill the terms of that contract if you’d like to continue working in China. Theoretically, depending on the city and province, one could arrive in China with an L-visa and start looking for a variety of part-time positions (without signing any contracts), as well as an apartment to let, but that’s an insurmountable amount of stress and pressure to assume as a new arrival in a foreign country, especially in light of the enormous language barrier. Why anyone would think this an ideal or better situation is beyond me.

The other serious problem with working in China illegally is that you are entirely vulnerable to the whims of just about anyone who might not like you or want you in this country. All it would take is one phone call to the right person and you’ll find yourself in a very unpleasant situation.

Some regard this as “freedom”: I call it a nightmare waiting to happen.

There are absolutely no real advantages to working illegally in China and the potential risks and inconveniences are formidable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
worpt



Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:47 pm    Post subject: Visas Reply with quote

I wouldn't risk working on a tourist visa, myself.

That being said, make sure you understand exactly what the organization you are going to work for means by needing a tourist visa.

Depending on the company, they will sometimes have you come to China with a tourist visa, but will change it to a Resident visa upon your arrival. It's just a much faster way to do it with a lot less headaches. I've seen this done many times with no problems.

But make sure it's clear, when you get here, you will need a resident visa. I would specifically ask; when you are working, will it be a resident visa or a tourist visa you will have?

Also, I think with just a tourist visa you don't get your English Expert Book thingee which is really important to have. I forget what it's called. It's been locked up in a filing cabinet for a couple of years.

Hope that helps...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
damasseur



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So I was just reading a "horror story" and many posters were saying that teaching on a tourist visa is really bad.



It was the worst experience in my life!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ESL Hobo



Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 262

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing China.
How about this scenario.
Live in Taiwan and work in China with a tourist visa, but not for a school, teaching privates only, then returning to Taiwan once a month on the weekend to renew your visa.

Any ideas, suggestions?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 5 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China