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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:52 am Post subject: To Translate or Not to Translate? |
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I reckon that if there is a major 'controversy' among TEFLers, it's about whether or not to translate in class. There are those (usually mono-lingual English speakers, in my experience) who say that you should never ever translate a single word - or even allow ss to use dictionaries - no matter how basic your ss knowledge of English.
There are others - among them myself - who believe that there are times when a simple translation can save a hell of a lot of valuable classroom time and clear up ambiguities. After all, even if we don't translate for them, chances are ss are going to look it up in a dictionary when they leave class. Of course, you can go too far with translating, but that doesn't negate the benefits of doing so in moderation.
A colleague once told me that he thinks a lot of TEFLers adopt this anti-translation stance to cover up their total lack of ability in the local language. I agree with him - and I also think that anyone who has acutally learned, not just taught, a language (which is more than you can say for a lot of TEFLers) will understand that translations can be a life saver.
Opinions? |
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khmerhit
Joined: 31 May 2003 Posts: 1874 Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Bollox-- i used translation all the time and every day. I used Cambodian French and fake Chinese (which vastly amused my charges....) They had lots of English going on in their little brainpans, three hours a day plus homework in fact. I never worried that a translation of a word would spoil the learning process. As Scot47 is wont to exclaim, Sheesh!! |
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denise

Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 3419 Location: finally home-ish
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:03 am Post subject: |
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I'm all for translating (if I know the translation) or letting the students translate for each other if it'll save time and headaches and ensure comprehension. I've never followed the "English only" mentality--it is far too absolute for me. And sometimes it seems a bit punitive, too. If my students are on task, I don't mind at all if they slip into Japanese/Czech/Mandarin/whatever when they get stuck. (Yes, I know that immersion is "the way to go," and of course I am all for my students actually using the target language in class, but realistically, there are times when it's just counterproductive to force them to stick to English.)
And I agree that translation can go too far.
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Wolf

Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 1245 Location: Middle Earth
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I used it more in Japan - where I taught lower level students more often. If they spoke no English whatsoever, then I'd give instructions in Japanese and we'd do the conversational lesson exercises in English. They only had to listen to my Nihongo for a few minutes out of a lesson.
If a quick word to word translation would do the trick, I might do one to save time. I never used it with sentence structures, as Japanese/English sentence structures differ so much (unless someone was dying for a translation and the lesson had come to a halt.)
In China I try to explain new words giving simple definitions in English, but my students just look up everything in their electronic dictionaires anyway. |
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Capergirl

Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 1232 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Unless my students are at the beginning levels, I try to dissuade them from using translation in the classroom (i.e. electronic translators and L1-English dictionaries). I don't speak the languages of my students, so translation isn't possible for me in any case. However, even if I could, I wouldn't. I believe that translation is a crutch and that it slows down the process of learning a language. I really don't believe anyone will become fluent by relying heavily on translation and that is what I tell my (adult) students.
When I was teaching at a language school in Taiwan, I had one class that was known as the "experimental" class. This class was different in that the students had always had a "foreign" (American or Canadian) teacher and no instruction by a Taiwanese teacher at any time. All of the other classes were taught primarily by Taiwanese teachers, with a foreign "co-teacher" coming in every so often to do a lesson. The students in my experimental class, although considered to be at the intermediate level, were highly advanced. They could have real conversations in English, their writing was close to that of a Canadian child the same age (11-12), and their pronunciation was flawless. If you closed your eyes, you would not know you were talking to a Taiwanese student. They sounded North American. So that is my success story for the no-translation method.
As for me, I am bilingual. I learned French all through school, but did not become "fluent" until I attended a four-month course in total French immersion at a French university (after my degree, in which I minored in French also). So my opinion on this is deeply rooted in my own experiences. This is why I have enrolled my daughter in a French preschool and would like to have her attend elementary school in a L2, whether it be French or another language. "Go big or stay home."  |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:41 am Post subject: |
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I might have added to the OP that there is another category of teachers who are dead against translation (or at least they say they are). These are local EFL teachers who work alongside native speaker teachers, and who are probably made to feel inferior for that reason. I feel that they think they have to try extra hard to compensate for the perceived disadvantage of being a non-native speaker. To my mind, however, being able to speak your ss language is a huge advantage - both because you can translate and because you can anticipate their mistakes.
Capergirl, I agree with you that 'relying heavily on translation' is not a good thing. However, I doubt that there is a single EFL teacher out there who has never been damn glad that they could translate a word or phrase, or that one of their ss had a dictionary or was able to translate for the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Steiner

Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 573 Location: Hunan China
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Try to explain "vinegar" to a class of 60 low-intermediate students without using translation and see how much time it takes before they understand. And no, you can't take in a bottle of vinegar for them to smell. |
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Roger
Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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If you compare the linguistic abilities of students throughout the EFL world, you will find that those from China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan are among the poorest, and these nations are known to rely on translation for learning English (or other languages).
The idea that you should make the learning of English as easy as possible is unhelpful. The less effort the student makes the less his or her own success and competence!
Translating for the benefit of our students makes them dependent on us as their ultimate source of knowledge, interpretation and erudition. This is bad for their own imagination. What's more, no one has so far hinted at the dangers of mistranslations, which are legion here in the Far East! How few Chinese actually know how to address a Westerner? My Chinese residence permit lists my first name as my surname, and my surname as my first name - courtesy of my FAO!
Translating things is self-limiting. The learner limits his or her grasp of things in the target language to what he or she understands in his or her first language - which is not saying much, since "understanding" does not mean knowing how "to say" one word in Chinese. Most of us would probably be over-challenged trying to "explain" or "define" the word "vinegar" because we do not have the relevant knowledge in chemistry.
Understanding comes from knowing how to do things and express these actions in appropriate language; you can teach Chinese kids words scuh as "pushups" by demonstrating - and have the kids perform - pushups; no translation would be as accurate or effective as the action!
FOr objects of a physical nature, use illustrations, drawings, visuals - a lot more useful than translations!
Besides, no one can continuously listen to some speech in a second language, and translate it word by word for hours; the mind tires and gets exhausted, and mistranslations are inevitable.
Again - just listen to our CHinese students, and you know what I mean!
Oh, and come to remember - at college, we had all foreign language instruction given in the different target languages, translation only by ourselves, for ourselves! Our French, German and Italian teachers wasted no time on laggards and their special needs!
I can only say: my teachers did a good job by NOT TRANSLATING ANYTHING! (Occasional tidbits thrown in for some special effect were allowed in translated versions!). |
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nomadder

Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 709 Location: Somewherebetweenhereandthere
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Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely! Especially at the lower levels. I taught alot of kids and had a stock of words I knew I'd need to translate for them. Then there were times they'd ask me if the word was (something Japanese) and I'd say yes or no. For me this was usually the best way I could know if they got it. Otherwise a kid could spend months or years thinking a fox was a cat for example. At higher levels they should be able to get things from the context but sometimes you need to check- especially abstract things. When I learn languages I need to do some checking atleast after class to be sure. Actually sometimes during class or otherwise I'd sit there wondering and miss out on other stuff. But you don't want to interrupt the flow of the lesson too much with translations. |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Roger,
I think it's a case of choosing your battles wisely.
Sure, we have to stimulate our ss imaginations and not spoonfeed them, but that does not mean that we have to frustrate themselves and ourselves by trying to 'explain' some simple word when a one-word translation would do the trick perfectly. As I say, they're going to go home and look it up in their dictionaries themsleves anyway. It reminds me of something I heard recently about how, contrary to what people say, using calculators for routine tasks does not in fact dull your mathemathical skills. Save the brainwork for when it counts -otherwise, why make your life unneccessarily difficult?
BTW, when I was a student of languages at uni, I relied fairly heavily on translation, and don't believe I"m any the worse for it. I have to say that if i was learning a language from scratch right now, I would want to have either a teacher who knew a little English, or a very good dictionary. Preferably both. |
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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 2372 Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:55 am Post subject: Re: To Translate or Not to Translate? |
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Quote: |
There are others - among them myself - who believe that there are times when a simple translation can save a hell of a lot of valuable classroom time and clear up ambiguities. |
True, although I've found that the more students 'think in English', the less need there is for them to use L1. If students can use English words to ask what a new word is, so much the better. I.e. they could ask, "What's the word for a place where two roads cross?" (Intersection), rather than looking up the word in the dictionary. That way, they use English to communicate a need, to learn new words.
On the other hand, if the new word is specific or technical (say, a name of a type of food), then translation may be best. Translation is fine, but if it's over-used, the students spend more time in L1 than in English.
The overuse of L1 is especially a problem in China where students have been taught the grammar-translation method of learning English during school. Many students translate English words literally into Chinese, and use 'Chinglish' expressions in conversation. A Chinese professor told me a joke today, in that a foreign teacher recently asked a student where the bathroom was. The student thought bathroom to mean, literally, the place where you have a bath. So the teacher was directed there!
Most schools in China now realize the flaws of GTR, and now the pendulum seems to have swung completely in the other direction. At least in the place I'm teaching in now, the directors want essentially no grammar and translation, and a chance for students to talk in English, to 'open their mouhts', as it were.
Steve
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guty

Joined: 10 Apr 2003 Posts: 365 Location: on holiday
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:09 am Post subject: |
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You dont bath in the bathroom?
Youll be saying next that you play football with your hands. |
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Capergirl

Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 1232 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Cleopatra wrote: |
Capergirl, I agree with you that 'relying heavily on translation' is not a good thing. However, I doubt that there is a single EFL teacher out there who has never been damn glad that they could translate a word or phrase, or that one of their ss had a dictionary or was able to translate for the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong. |
If one or more of my students isn't getting the meaning of something, inevitably another student who does get the meaning will translate the word or phrase. They realize that I consider this a last resort so it doesn't happen often, but yes, it does happen. My students are not allowed to use L1-English dictionaries in class. They are each given an ESL dictionary (Oxford) at the beginning of the course and that is what they use. I don't speak Portuguese, which I consider to be a good thing in the sense that I'm not tempted to go the easy road all the time. In fact, I don't often tell them what something is in English...I get them to try to figure it out using other methods whenever possible. For example, if the students ask me what "reinvent" means, I will ask them if they know the word "invent". If they do, then I will ask them if they know what the prefix "re-" means. Blank stares. OK, do you know what "redo" means (I ask, as I write it on the board)? Yes, they know it means to do something again. Good. Now I ask them what they think "re" means. "Again." Right. Ahhhhh....reinvent means to invent again.
My point is that I won't always be there to help them and neither will their dictionaries. Like that age-old adage goes, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime."  |
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Cleopatra

Joined: 28 Jun 2003 Posts: 3657 Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Capergirl,
I do agree with what you have written: helping ss to think for themsleves and work out ways of understanding words is a vital skill and it is part of our job to help them with this.
However, there are many many words for which no amount of acting, miming, explaining or illustrating will ever suffice. In these case, teachers should not be ashamed to translate - they should be glad that they can do so.
Monolingual dictionaries are good for higher levels but I completely went off them for beginners, ever since the day I looked up the world "I". The defination? "A name for myself." Now, a student who doesn't understand "I" is really going to understand that (not!) |
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dyak

Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 630
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Capergirl wrote: |
"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime." |
Exactly, they need a real world method other than an L1 dictionary or someone to interpret for them.
However, I do use translation to point out the pitfalls of translation (anything to emphasize thinking in English... ). A student recently asked me,
�Il reste combien de temps avec vous?� (How much time left with you?)
I tried to make him aware of how the literal translation, �it remains how much (of) time with you� (I think this is right, I didn�t learn French through translation though� ) makes little sense in English. I think it can also be helpful for the no article languages to point out where the article 'would' go in Polish and does go in English for the language to make sense.
But it�s a slippery slope� incidentally, how do overseas bosses react to teachers using translation? |
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