Job Discussion Forums

[Margot73]

pass the TOEFL test? I was the TA of an ESL class for foreign grad students at a US university. Many of the students were from China, doing their PhD's in engineering, the sciences, math, econ etc. I could never figure out HOW some of them had managed to pass the TOEFL test. I can't remember the minimum score the university required, but it was hard to fathom that some of these students who could not even string together a real sentence met it. Does cheating happen even on the TOEFL, which I thought was pretty tightly controlled? The sad thing is that these grad students often "earned their keep" by being TA's for undergraduate courses. You can imagine being a freshman, already overwhelmed with your calculus or macroeconomics course. The professor just gave the lectures, you were supposed to go to the TA's for extra help...and you had no idea what in the H they were trying to say. Is this still a problem in US universities? It's been a decade since I graduated.

[Leon Purvis]

[smalls]

In the 90's studied at Ohio State University, one of the biggest schools in the US - had a TA for an English class (may have been writing, freshman level) and on the first day, I asked the TA a question related to writing, Yoshi Furuhashi quickly apologized for lacking the proper vocab to explain the answer. Worked hard and was kind, but had no business teaching the class. She was Japanese and fit your description.
Economics 101, lecture had close to 1,000 students, so TA's were really important. My TA was from South Korea, hardly could understand a word he said, he was easily frustrated when students could not make sense of what he was saying and told me I needed to go elsewhere for help. Studying day and night for that class, but somethings truly elude me, like Economics - had to copy off the stranger next to me to pass and didn't feel a touch of shame.
Computer lab TA (Word, Excel) Japanese - hard to understand, but went out of her way to help the students, dictionary always in hand and on the weekends was willing to come to the labs to help the students who were struggling.
Math TA - came to the first class - some language I have never seen was scribbled across the board - no one knew what it said. The TA, a scraggly-looking white guy said it was Elf (Elven?). No more explanation. In the end, he could explain the problems, unfortuntately, I am far from fluent in any areas of math.
Guess that came with attending a big state school (especially for the lower level classes.)
GO BUCKEYES!

[mlomker]

[Margot73]

Leon,
the Chinese TA's were running the sections for large intro level classes such as Macroeconomics, Calculus, Chemistry 1 and so on. The professor gave the lectures and the TA's held smaller sections once a week as well as office hours. That was when you were supposed to ask questions. This was their job, in return for which they received free tuition for their graduate studies and a livng stipend. They had other duties too, like grading exams and assisting professors in their research.

Smalls,

You had a Japanese, non-native speaker teaching an ENGLISH class??? That's just bizzare.

[smalls]

The actual class was - First Year English Composition
For one of our projects, had to read a composition based on our own personal experiences in front of the class - I wrote one on a near mauling (heavy on the exaggeration) by a moose up in Alaska. When I finished, she clapped her hands and through smiling lips and a strong accent told the class that it reminded her so much of her home. Will never forget Yoshi, sure was a strange, but smiley bird.

[Leon Purvis]

This astonishes me because I was both a graduate assistant and a teaching assistant ('intern teacher' is a better word for it) during my MA studies. TAs and GAs are (usually) scholarship recipients who assist/teach within their fields. A non-native English speaking student would work in a writing lab if he had excellent command of English and his own language. He would tutor (not teach) students who spoke his native language.

The situations described by others probably wouldn't happen in the the schools that I attended for two reasons: 1. the large number of native English speakers who receive grants and scholarships are better utilized in service to non-native English speakers and in service to English speakers who experience difficulties in their fields and 2. the vast majority of assistants in most universities are paper correcters--- some of them are recipients of fairly large grants.

I assume that the experiences described occurred in departments such as mathematics and engineering where both Asian faculty and students are deemed to be "over-represented". Even then, it seems difficult to believe that students with poor command of English would be teaching native English speakers. NONEnglish-speaking Asian math PROFESSORS are pretty common, though.

This isn't to say that it can't happen or doesn't happen. If it does happen, it isn't because someone is paid to fudge a TOEFEL test result. The decision to employ such a student in a capacity for which he is not qualified would be made by someone in the department for EOE purposes or as a favor to someone. This sort of thing happens for native English speakers for sure. I graduated with someone who rarely attended class and who graduated with honors and subsequently received a teaching contract in the university. Nobody could figure that one out.

[englishgibson]

that kinda brings my thoughts to the commander in chief and his accademic success

peace to all fella americans, or chinese
and
cheers and beers to all hard working FTs in china

[mondrian]