Job Discussion Forums

[burngirl]

Hi everyone,

I am finishing up my English undergraduate degree and although I intend to take a CELTA course at the end of it all, I have the opportunity to either study (as part of my undergraduate degree) a course in english grammar, the structure of modern english, or in linguistics.

The grammar course is third year, and deals with the basics: parts of speech, sentence structure incl. complex/compound sentences, and the "system of traditional grammar" which "looks at the �prescriptive� aspect of traditional grammar teaching, and explains terms like �correctness�, �usage�, and �standardness� in relation to English; [and] examines and evaluates the major prescriptive rules of correctness, and outlines the historical background of these rules."

The "structure of modern english" course looks at English phonetics, phonology, grammar, and vocabulary. (assuming I don't need to go into this further, given your expertise in the field )

The linguistics course would be 2nd year, and include morphology, syntax, semantics, etc within different languages.

Which, in your opinion, would be the most beneficial to me as a new ESL teacher?

[wildchild]

Of course, the sole correct answer, as it often is, is BOTH!

If you must choose one, take the one that you know less about.

[fluffyhamster]

You'll be doing a fair bit of grammar (ostensibly descriptive) on the CELTA, and can read any number of books on it in your spare time both pre and post-CELTA; as for linguistics, ultimately you aren't out to prove theories (putting that another way, as a teacher you'll end up only interested in those theories that seem capable of delivering pedagogical dividends e.g. I doubt if Chomskyan syntax will appeal to you as much as Hallidayan, or formal semantics appeal more than e.g. Wierzbecka's Natural Semantic Metalanguage, but unfortunately what might be more useful, especially for teachers, is not always what is the focus of formal courses outside of TESOL)...and again, you can dip into books and find your own direction and interests (I'd like to mention Michael Lewis's The Lexical Approach as a good starting point for any teacher in the first year or two of their career).

So the second course that you mentioned, on modern English, is probably the one that is of the most potential relevance.

[Justin Trullinger]

Both would be good! But if you gotta choose, talk to the profs. Both grammar and linguistics are obviously related to language teaching, but it how related they might be depends a lot on the teachers approach.

Best,
Justin

[MELEE]

The most overtly useful in my opinion is the Structure of Modern English. I'm always amazed at how little phonology new teachers know (it's frightening how little I knew!) A little teacher knowledge goes a long way in terms of teaching pronunciation. For example with Mexican Spanish speakers you could repeat mother over and over and over again and they'll never pronounce it right. If you instruct them on how the sound is made, they will immediately pronounce it right. (Of course they will foget in speach anyways, but you got to start some where.)

But I suggest you talk to other students about the 3 professors giving the classes. My most memorable undergraduate classes were great because of the teacher as much as the subject. And a topic I loved was a disappointing class because the professor should never have been allowed in front of a class.

[wildchild]

[Justin Trullinger]

[wildchild]

[ryuuga]

Grammar is fun, but it complements linguistics. If you can talk well but not say words in the right order or context, it is not going to help much.

(Personally I find grammar a bit more interesting because it is not very repetitive.)

[Stephen Jones]

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

The linguistics course sounds like a survey course (an intro to Linguistics). They normally include a bit of everything that ESL/EFL teachers use. You will learn a bit about phonetics, and phonology, a bit about diagramming sentences in Englsh which will be beneficial for learning to look at English the way learners do, and where English sits in the Indo-European family, as well as a bit about languages in other families.

If you're finishing off a degree in English lit, I assume you can already write (prescriptively) grammatically accurate sentences and discourse because otherwise you wouldhave flunked out. Especially after having taken an introduction to Linguistics, you shouldn't have much problem in researching prescriptive grammar on your own- there are tonnes of web sites that describe tense and aspect and the other things that are commonl taught in ESL/EFL classes.

I would recommend either the structure of English or the linguistics course, but I'd lean towards the linguistics course, because it will give you a basic idea of the things studied more in more depth in the structures course, but it will also give you a basic foundation in a lot of other things as well.

I've been teaching English for over five years- over three of them in Japan. The books I brought with me to Japan are my first year intro to linguistics text, a text on phonetics, a very high level grammar book that is only used to offer explanations to Japanese teachers of English (although they usually just say that the English grammar textbook is both too hard for them to understand and also wrong, because it was written be native English speakers and they think it's impossible for English native speakers to actually learn English grammar). The first year textbook has been far more use than the others.

Don't forget, it's not like you can't go to a university bookstore and buy books for subjects and then not actually take the subject, but learn from the book. It works best if you already have a grounding in the subject, and that's what the intro courses are for.

[burngirl]

thank you for your opinions!

As Gambate mentioned, it will be possible to pick up a few university-level texts and study on my own. So given that I will obtain university credit toward my degree if I take an English course, but not if I take a Linguistics course, I am leaning toward the former.

The structure of modern english course intrigues me, and I have written to the professor to see whether she thinks it will be a good preparation for me. In case any of you would like to offer a further opinion, here's the outline:

http://www.english.ubc.ca/courses/summer2007/329-921.htm

[rusmeister]

I discovered in my Master's program that linguistics has a lot of awesome discoveries and a lot of hot air (it seemed like a 50/50 split) aimed at justifying associate professors' paychecks. Modern theories are either really good or total BS, so linguistics as a main line is risky.

Grammar is a lot more worked out, although aspects of teaching it as a foreign language has grey areas that have not been worked out (some of it I find I actually have to work out myself on the advanced levels).

I'd go for the grammar and try to audit a couple of linguistic courses (if I were a rich bored single young man that wanted to learn this stuff).

Alternatively, you can learn the grammar by teaching it to foreigners for years with good textbooks in a classroom.

[Glenski]

Grammar has reference books to help answer questions from students. I would think that linguistics is a different animal; you can read all you want on your own about the various theories, but as to which ones are more widely accepted, and to learn more intricacies about them, you may want to have a course help you.

One question that has not been posed here is for burngirl: What sort of teaching are you looking to get into?
in your home country or abroad? (which country?)
university level, international schools, K-12, business school, etc.?

[Sgt Killjoy]

To equip you for teaching abroad(which isn't ESL, rather it's EFL), I would say the grammar and modern English would be the most important, in that order.