Job Discussion Forums

[Voldermort]

OK, there is a lot of ongoing speculation about good school, bad schools, agencies and headhunters in China. From what I have seen, bad schools are being named and shamed. But at the same time, not many good things are being said about the good schools here. The problem many people are facing now, is that just about everytime a person has a bad experience, then instantly the whole internet community knows about this bad school. This in turn is causing a domino effect.

There are a lot of bad companies here in China, I will be the first to admit it. But there are also a few good ones. The problem is, the bad are giving the good a bad name.

For you newbies there is a big difference between a headhunter and an agency. A headhunter will bring you to China, arrange interviews in a school for you and set you up with a good job. An agency will bring you to China, make you sign a contract with them rather than a school then start sending you out to various schools to work.

I would like to hear from other expacts out there what they think about this and to name any good or bad companies they have had the pleasure of meeting. Please note this is for agencies and companies only, Not schools.

Hebei, New Times International (Headhunter)
I would recomend these to anybody, especially if this is your first time to China. They really go all out to look after you and find you exactly what you want.

Jilin, Tianshuo Education Services (agency)
Stay clear. I and many other teachers fell into their clutches and they caused nothing but bad memories. They will do anything they can to sell you at the highest profit, without a thought to the teacher at all.

Jilin, Simon Language Club (agency)
Another bad one. This man likes to think he is above the law, so when it comes to having your visa processed, don't expect it to be legal. He will hold your passport until he has gained the maximum profit out of you.

[nolefan]

good idea, voldemort.

Such a thread should be valuable, especially for the newbies that will be flocking the boards over the next 2 weeks.

I second what you said about New Times International in Hebei. Those folks have been great to my wife and I and they have gone beyond the call of duty in helping us settle down in China. Mr. Dou is running a tight ship and I can see them trying really hard to keep both the schools and the teachers happy. Good folks they are.

[limits601]

For Canadians

Canadian Internation and National Education Center (CINEC) is a bad recruiter. They will agree to anything before you head off to China and then when you arrive, your contract has changed and you are stuck. I also dont recommend the school to which they send you too which is Jiaxing Nanhu International Experimental School. Management is aweful and the students are the same as well. This isnt just a rant, its the total truth so beware Canadians.

[Guest]

There has been quite a bit written about YAKUP INTERNATIONAL - Recruiters, on Daves, but I came here with them and I did not have many problems.

I will admit that I was very green, and just got lucky with the School I arrived at - I could just have easily landed in a awful School!

Basically, I would advise newbies that it is okay to come to China with a Recruiter if you watch out for your own interests and realise that the Recruiter is only interested in his commission in placing you in a School. If you research what benefits you should expect and make sure that you get them, I do not see a problem using a Recruiter.

In my case, time was of the essence, as School was about to commence and also I had no qualifications and really think I needed help in finding a School. I personally think that the window of opporunity for people like myself will close within the next few years in China.

[Roger]

The differentiation between HEADHUNTER and AGENT was a new one to me - hitherto I grouped all of those go-betweens under the heading "AGENTS", a.k.a. "RECRUITERS".

By your logic, most training centres here in Guangdong would fail to pass the test. Every single one that I know loans its FTs to other schools that sign a contract or not with the agent (training centre).
The major difference between the "good" ones and the truly bad ones is this: the good ones will sponsor you legally and offer you a basic salary commensurate for a minimum number of contact time, whether in-house or elsewhere. The truly bad ones won't sign any binding agreement with you because they are driven by the purest opportunistic motivation. They will hire and fire as they deem necessary.

But we must remain in the clear about the legality of loaning teachers to other takers - including private companies where some of us end up teaching company classes: it is not legal.

Therefore, the most honourable employers are those that work you inside their own premises, and, of course, sign a contract with you.

[Voldermort]

I agree with most of what you say Roger.

It is common for many language schools, for example 'English First' to subcontract their teachers out to another, often public, school. These minor details are often neglected when questioning a future employer about the teaching. Although you may have a contract with one school, it is perfectly legal for them to 'hire you out'. This is how many Agencies get away with the so called 'farming' of teachers. Perhaps there should be a specific address writen into the Experts Card. This is one question anybody, newbie or not, should ask a future employer "Will I be teaching only within your building."

Coming to China through a headhunter, like Hebei New Times, avoids these problems. With these, in most cases, they will find you a public school to work with, then you sign the contract with the school. The school will then pay the company a 'finders fee', which basically means the company are in your past and you need not have any further dealings with them. The other advantage is that you get to see your school and living conditions before you actually commit yourself. If it's no good, then you simply move on and find another. Of course this will vary from company to company, so it's best to make sure they can do this for you before you come to China.

I was personally told to avoid using a company when I initially started looking for work in China. Anybody who uses this forum often will know the mess I had to deal with when things went bad for me. Now I wish I used one of these services. Perhaps I would have had a more enjoyable time in China.

[Brian Caulfield]

In my experience in Taiwan and Korea , good schools don't use agencies , recruiters or head hunters .
I mean why do you need them ? I liken these people to pimps . My pimp by the name of Sean just washed his hands when I told him of my difficulties. I never even met the guy . We never even talked on the phone . I could have been deaf with a speach impediment and he wouldn't have known . I have seen his name a few times here . He operates out of Shanghai .
Always deal directly with schools and talk with the teachers who are there and if possible the teacher you will replace . It makes for a smooth transition .

[abusalam4]

All I can say is that Yakup is a crook, a cheat and a liar!
Beware of him and stay away from him!

[Steppenwolf]

Yakup? I haven't heard of Yakup in two years now.... are they still in business???

[abusalam4]

[Leon Purvis]

Some recruiters are given an email address from the school for whom they are recruiting, thus making it appear that they are direct, salaried employees of the school.

Be SURE that you are dealing with either a) someone who is employed in the FAO or someone who knows the school FAO, has placed teachers in the school under consideration, and knows the actual conditions under which you will be working.

I am very leery of recruiters. I dealt with one who did not reveal to me that she was a recruiter until I called the school's FAO and was told that she was not a college or FAO employee. The guy in the FAO had never even heard of her. She was working under an assumed name but had a school email address. I confronted her with what I had learned and dropped her fast.

She had never placed anyone at that school before and she had never even been to the school at all. How she managed to get a school email address is beyond me.

If you use an agency of a freelance recruiter, be careful.