Job Discussion Forums

[amity]

Poor fellas....
I just got a rejection email that included the following paragraph:

"Also, this year we decided not to replace departing females teachers. Women can only teach women whereas males can now teach women and men. I need sufficent teachers to cover all classes and having women leaves me short, especially in the second semester when we have only a few women's classes and many men's classes."

This from the King Fahd Military Medical Center in Dhahran. What do you all think? Will a male-only policy become even more widespread in the future?

[Stephen Jones]

You've got an honest answer explaining the problem. A sign of honest management.

The situation of men being allowed to teach women is exceptional in the Kingdom. Simply apply to one of the many women's colleges. It is only in the medical sector that you ever get men and women together anyway.

[amity]

Yes, I thought it was rather noble of him, too. But I can also read the handwriting on the wall ... probably no job for me in Saudi Arabia at all.

[Cleopatra]

I wonder if these mixed groups include Saudi women? If so, that would be most unusual in the Kingdom, even in the medical field. I do know of some women who have taught Saudi men in male only groups in a hospital setting, but these were medical instrucutors, not ESL teachers.

I very much doubt this new policy will extend beyond hospitals. There are quite a few women's colleges in the Kingdom, and these places only employ female teachers. There is no prospect of this changing in the near future.

[Robski]

Mixed groups? Wow!! Not even McDonalds is mixed. We're not even allowed to meet our female colleagues here in Jubail.

The other problem is that life for women here is so restricted / restrictive that any really well-qualified women simply would not come. You don't even make a shed load of money these days. With the exchange rate and everything, I'm actually on less than I was in the UK last year, except that I'm not currently paying any tax or spending much (not much to spend it on, eh). So why would a talented, well-qualified women come to KSA?

I'm sure many of the women here are doing a great job under highly unfavourable conditions. But the truth is that Saudi has terrible trouble recruiting. They need to completely liberalise (yeah, sure!) or get the men to teach the women as well.

[007]

[amity]

[veiledsentiments]

On that Al-Faisel University site, the employment link is dead... so no action there.

And Amity... avoid new places... way too much hassle and aggravation.

VS

[Cleopatra]

[Queen of Sheba]

This is all true Cleopatra, however, there are many people who simply should never have come to KSA. Overly egotistical American patriotic types come to mind. Then there are the types that are here to change Saudi 'barbarians' into clones of themselves, who then get frustrated when this doesnt happen, and lash out at the students for being who they are, and always will be.

[amity]

Yes, I have lived in Kuwait. Admittedly that was a whole different thing in many ways, and I understand it is even less restrictive now, women can wear pants and short sleeved tops, etc., now whereas that would not have been recommended at most places when I was there. If I had some need to be out walking in the streets I would wear an abaya even in Kuwait back then! So at any rate, Kuwait is not and was never as restrictive as Saudi Arabia. But I do know roughly what it would be like, and I would be quite comfortable there, I am sure. I would welcome the opportunity if I could find a good job.

[Queen of Sheba]

Amity, I am sure you are capable of surviving here; it wouldn�t be the first time a woman has adjusted to life in KSA. While it is almost always difficult at first, if you are positive and dedicated, you will fill up your spare time with productive acts, lest you deteriorate into someone so bored and pathetic that all you can come up with is gossiping up all your colleagues during the night hours. As far as jobs are concerned, I would try Effat College, Prince Mohammed University, and Al Yamamah College. I am sure you can get into one of these places with a little time and perseverance. Having said all that, I wouldn�t compare Kuwait to Saudi Arabia, they are not similar countries or lifestyles for expats in particular, even though the people are connected genealogically and they are both Gulf nations. Even Kuwaitis and Saudis admit to their vast differences readily.

[amity]

Even without an M.A.?

Thank you, Queen of Sheba. I will persevere then.

[Cleopatra]

As I've said, almost all third level colleges in the Gulf require an MA - on paper, at any rate. In practice, some, particularly in KSA, are rather more flexible with this requirement, particularly if you express an interest in doing a relevant MA in the near future. I would say that your lack of ESL teaching experience would be a more serious obstacle. Some places might take an experienced teacher with no MA, or vice versa, but I don't think too many places would take on a teacher with little experience and no MA.

Still, you never know, and it can't hurt to send out a few CVs.

[The_Prodiigy]

Cleopatra wrote :

Personally, life here is not all that much more restrictive for single women than it is for single men.
then
I agree that, on balance, women suffer more than men as a result of due Saudi gender segregation.

Phew, relieved to see that one nailed down.