Job Discussion Forums

[dduck]

[shirley]

I think Yaramaz is referring to the problem of relevance. When I lived in Prague my teacher was teaching me to say "Move the piano over there". I realize music is important to Czechs; however, most of us foreigners in the class did not bring our pianos with us but we did need to know how to get a hair cut, etc. The same problem in France, where I learned how to ask for a hotel room but not how to write a check or ask for money from my account or even read the phone book. Beginners studying the local language of the country they live in need survival language. In most ESL programs you can study survival English just to be able to go to the doctor or ask for meat at the butcher. I have yet to find a non-English language country that takes that approach to language teaching. At the academic level there is little difference other than the homogeneity of the language of the learners in EFL. Another difference is ESL teachers teach the "system" as well as the language. For example, when I lived in France I received a letter from the national health insurance office telling me it was time to "update my electronic healthcard". I understood the words and the syntax but I had no idea what it meant or how to do it or where to do it. These types of things are taught by ESL teachers but would not be relevant to an EFL student. I think that's what he or she is referring to.

[Stephen Jones]

There may not be a difference but there certainly should be. When you're teaching TEFL the classroom is normally the only place where the students are going to be able to practise their English, and may even be the only plaxe they are exposed to English.

On the other hand immigrants are exposed to English all the time in their daily lives. What they need more than practise is an understanding of what the rules are and an explanation of what they are seeing outside. So an ESL lesson ought to be more fomral than an EFL one.

And of course, there is the fact that in an ESL lesson, you often have to do things other than teach English. Cases of students who have never come across electricity before are rare, but there are many other survival skills that you need to teach.

[naturegirl321]

I think of TEFL as teaching in a country where English is not the first language.
TESL is teaching where English is the main language,
I think. . . defintiations are always changing . . .

[yaramaz]

When I wrote about the difference between ESL and EFL I was referring specifically to relevance for the learner. My students in Canada needed to know how to order a pizza, make a collect call, ask about bus fares or rent an apartment, read a map, understand a menu and what the foods on it were. Also, I found that it was vitally important to give them a solid base to build from early on-- a few vital verbs and their conjugations in several tenses so they could get a quick start to expressing their needs and wishes, as well as a handful of key words and phrases and idioms that would get them off to a good start. Here in Turkey that is not the case. My students learn some songs and talk about how Ali can or cant swim, or who their favourite pop singer is. They can learn simple present this year and simple past next year-- after all, what's the hurry? Both approaches teach English but they are not interchangeable.

My native speaking Turkish teacher is teaching me Turkish the way that he teaches English-- the Ali can/can't swim way. After several lessons from him, I still haven't learned the things I came there for- mainly, key phrases and structures and words that will help me to understand the bus schedules or government forms or what the non English speaking director at the school is saying to me. I want to know the most relevant verbs and adjectives and the suffixes that modify the verbs so that I can start piecing the puzzle together. 'Swimming' is not relevant because I am in the middle of a bloody arid plateau with no swimming pools or lakes around. Sure Ali can swim, but I still dont understand what the form I just signed says...

[cheryl]

[dduck]

Thanks y'all for replying.